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What are the tradeoffs between keyboard and joypad encoding?

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GaryMcT:

--- Quote from: Dazz on July 25, 2009, 02:16:04 am ---
--- Quote from: GaryMcT on July 25, 2009, 01:12:29 am ---
--- Quote from: Dazz on July 25, 2009, 12:25:46 am ---
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 23, 2009, 02:03:58 pm ---If you're using just mame, you don't need shifted buttons.  Mame can do (simultaneous) combos through remapping.  Mame can do combos accross multiple devices, such as Up on joystick1 + key "T" on keyboard + Left mouse button = right on player 2.

I use mame combos instead of shift.  Frontends and other emus, OTOH, might not, so you might need the hardware shift. 

--- End quote ---
Well, I got my 360's installed and wired up.  I ended up using the wiring harness and wired up 7 buttons and 8 to my start button.  I did both players 1 & 2 via the U360's and have players 3 & 4 via the IPAC.

I am noticing that MAME does not like combo buttons...  I have start plus player 1 button 1 set for coin and player 1 start as start for player 1.  MAME does not like this... It enters credits when player 1 start is held and tapping player 1 button 1, but as soon as you release the start button it accepts it as start.  So I cannot start 2 player games with it mapped as suggested above. :(

--- End quote ---

Have you tried using the U360 software to do the combos instead of using the builtin Mame functionality to do this?

--- End quote ---
What software will configure the U360 buttons?  I don't see anywhere in the Ultramap application that even mentions buttons.

--- End quote ---

If you have a particular version of the firmware, button 8 is always shift and turns button 1 into button 9, 2 into 10, etc.  You might actually be running into that.  I can't seem to find the page on the ultimarc site, but if you have a newer U360, it is doing this already.  If you have an older one, you can upgrade to the newer firmware.  If you have a newer one and don't want this functionality, you can downgrade to the previous version.

Dazz:

--- Quote from: GaryMcT on July 25, 2009, 02:42:31 am ---
--- Quote from: Dazz on July 25, 2009, 02:16:04 am ---
--- Quote from: GaryMcT on July 25, 2009, 01:12:29 am ---
--- Quote from: Dazz on July 25, 2009, 12:25:46 am ---
--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on July 23, 2009, 02:03:58 pm ---If you're using just mame, you don't need shifted buttons.  Mame can do (simultaneous) combos through remapping.  Mame can do combos accross multiple devices, such as Up on joystick1 + key "T" on keyboard + Left mouse button = right on player 2.

I use mame combos instead of shift.  Frontends and other emus, OTOH, might not, so you might need the hardware shift. 

--- End quote ---
Well, I got my 360's installed and wired up.  I ended up using the wiring harness and wired up 7 buttons and 8 to my start button.  I did both players 1 & 2 via the U360's and have players 3 & 4 via the IPAC.

I am noticing that MAME does not like combo buttons...  I have start plus player 1 button 1 set for coin and player 1 start as start for player 1.  MAME does not like this... It enters credits when player 1 start is held and tapping player 1 button 1, but as soon as you release the start button it accepts it as start.  So I cannot start 2 player games with it mapped as suggested above. :(

--- End quote ---

Have you tried using the U360 software to do the combos instead of using the builtin Mame functionality to do this?

--- End quote ---
What software will configure the U360 buttons?  I don't see anywhere in the Ultramap application that even mentions buttons.

--- End quote ---

If you have a particular version of the firmware, button 8 is always shift and turns button 1 into button 9, 2 into 10, etc.  You might actually be running into that.  I can't seem to find the page on the ultimarc site, but if you have a newer U360, it is doing this already.  If you have an older one, you can upgrade to the newer firmware.  If you have a newer one and don't want this functionality, you can downgrade to the previous version.

--- End quote ---
ah ha!  I just found it.  Looks like it is firmware 2.4.  Strange, because I thought I installed this firmware already.  Time to go try it out.

Ok, I upgraded both joys to 2.4 and now have the shift functionality.  I edited my mame control cfg to use Joy button 9 as coin, but still has the same problem as before.

I have my controls as follows:
Player 1 start = button 8 (Shift)
Player 1 button 1 = button 0 (when shifted = button 9)

I have MAME set as:
Player 1 start = button 8
Player 1 button 1 = button 0
Player 1 Coin = button 9

So, to enter a credit I would hold down player 1 Start and tap player 1 button 1. 

The problem lies as soon as I release the Start button the game will start....  With this setup I cannot start a 2 player game such as Q*Bert or Ms. Pac-Man.  I would really like to have the shift functionality like I had with the IPAC4 and not have to install dedicated coin buttons.

severdhed:
i have my u360 set up the same way, and i have the same problem as well, so what i did was connect two of my buttons to the mouse encoder, which not only gave me mouse buttons to use with my trackball, but also opened up two inputs on my u360s, so i could use them as coin buttons.

u_rebelscum:

--- Quote from: Dazz on July 25, 2009, 12:25:46 am ---I am noticing that MAME does not like combo buttons...  I have start plus player 1 button 1 set for coin and player 1 start as start for player 1.  MAME does not like this... It enters credits when player 1 start is held and tapping player 1 button 1, but as soon as you release the start button it accepts it as start.  So I cannot start 2 player games with it mapped as suggested above. :(

--- End quote ---

Have you tried holding down P1B1 and then tapping P1 start with this setup?  Mame doesn't care which button is pressed first, just if both are down at the same time, and P1B1 usually doesn't do anything until a game starts playing.  Hmm... you still might dave problems unless you map start as "P1 Start Not P1B1" also.  (To do a Not, press the button you don't want twice quickly after you pressed the button you do want: enter, P1 Start button, P1B1, P1B1.)

Even with this "Not" part added, however, if you press the button order like you discribed, you'd still have the two player problem.  And the "Not" probably won't help your shifted u360 config.  I say probably because it might work if: you press and hold start, press and hold P1B1, release start, then release P1B1.  I say might because if depends on how fast the u360 updates it's state, how fast/often mame polls the state, and maybe even when you release the start button compared to the prior two.

Also, this means you have to be careful what combos you map, especially for exit (default mapped to esc key).

blind_dado:
You don't have to necessarily choose between joypad or key encoding.  You can hook up a single button microswitch to both the u360 harness and the Ipac.  When I press my player 1 coin, for example, it registers both a "button 8" press and a "5" on the keyboard.

Also, if you have everything hooked up as joypad buttons, xPadder can take care of mapping key inputs whenever you need them.  It is an excellent program. 

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