Monitor Question?

[pjflip]

After reading through this forum for a few months, I have decided to start making a mame arcade.  I have a warehouse filled with possible supplies like monitors and computers, so I figured this would be a good place to start for questions.

I figured I would start with the monitor and build the arcade to fit the monitor.  I have a bunch of monitors to choose from and wanted to know which would be the best to use. 

I have like 6 Sony PVM-2530.  These look great to use and they have speakers that pop out of the sides that I figured could be used for the sound of the arcade.

I have like 5 NEC XM-2960.  These are huge 29 inch monitors, but I'm not sure I want to go that big.  I also have a 26 inch NEC DM-2600P.  If I decide to go with the NEC, I think I'de use that one.

I also have like a dozen or so multisync & multi scan montors in various sizes and makes.  And I have a lot of normal CRT monitors in various sizes.

Which should I choose?  Do I need any special wiring to connect them to a computer for mameing?

Thanks for the help

[Jack Burton]

*insanely jealous*

 

I would use the NEC monitors over the Sony ones since the Sony ones are 15khz only and the others are multisync monitors.

Depending on the monitor you will just be able to use a VGA cable and go straight from your PC to the monitor.  I know for a fact the NEC XM29 series can do this.  The DM series may be able to as well. 

If the monitor does not have a VGA port it may have BNC connectors on the back.  In this case all you need to do is find a RGBHV cable like this one: 

http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/VGA-RGBHV-Cable-1-HD15-Male-5-BNC-PVC-Custom-Lengths/EYRGBS4-MM

Note that you need not spend $40 on this.  They can be found cheaply on ebay, local computer stores, and here on the board.

You'll want a monitor that can do 15-31khz so that you will be able to display all arcade games in their native resolutions.  I don't know the specs of the DM-2600P, but I know the XM series will do this.  The PVM will not.

29" has been considered by most here to be a little too big for an upright arcade cabinet.  If you were making a showcase cab it would be very nice though.  A lowboy cab might also benefit from one since the viewing angle is lower and you would be farther back.  Japanese candy cabs use 29" monitors so you can get an idea by looking at some of those.

A 26" monitor probably has the same viewing area as a 25" arcade monitor.  They are actually the same tub size.  A vertical game will display at 19" on these monitors so they are considered pretty much the perfect size for an upright cab like an Ultimate arcade or Mortal Kombat conversion.

The final aspect to think of is the dot pitch of the monitors.  Dot pitch is an aspect of a monitor that will affect the sharpness of the image and how the graphics will present themselves. 

Read this thread for some pics and info about dot pitches: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=89791.0 (please ignore the flame wars and idiocy near the end of the thread)

A good dot pitch for classic arcade games is in the .5-.7mm range.  Most PC monitors will be .12-.31mm range, which is very fine and will make low res games have very thick scanlines.   You don't want that. 

Note that if a monitor has a high dot pitch then it will be blurry at high resolutions.  If you send 1024x768 to one of these monitors it might display it, but you won't be able to read small text very well if at all.   

The XM29 has a dot pitch of .6mm, which is great.  Closer to a vintage arcade monitor than the new ones you can buy.  I'm going to guess the DM series is similar. 

I haven't seen a XM29 in person, but I have a Mitsubishi XC37, which is a monitor in the same line but bigger.  The color and picture on it is equal to my Sony trinitrons. 

There are other considerations though.  Which monitor has the best convergence?  Do they have burn in?  Some may have a weak CRT and not be as bright as they used to be.  It can come down to situations and not the original specs of the monitors. 

I wish you luck with your project.

[pjflip]

Thanks for the great reply.  I wasn't expecting that much info. 

I really like the style of the showcase cabs, but they take up a lot of space.  I would probably do a regular cab.

I found another type of monitor, If you have any info on how this is for maming.

I have a pallet of IBM P260?

[Jack Burton]

"The new P260 color monitors incorporate the latest FD Trinitron CRT technology for professional quality images on the flattest possible screens. This is enhanced by a very fine aperture grille pitch, together with a high contrast CRT.

Features:

    * FD Trinitron CRTs for bright, sharp, accurate images on a virtually flat screen
    * High contrast CRTs with 1/4-wave anti-reflective coating for high definition images
    * Two video inputs with selection by a front mounted switch
    * Display Data Channel (DDC) 1/2B for error-free setup (PC system hardware and software dependent)
    * Lockable digital controls with On Screen Display navigation in a choice of nine languages
    * 85 Hz flicker-free images at up to 1600 x 1200 addressability (PC system hardware and software dependent)
    * ISO 9241, Part 3 capability for improved image quality (PC system hardware and software dependent)
    * ENERGY STAR and NUTEK compliant for low power consumption (PC system hardware and software dependent)
    * TCO-99 for the latest environmental requirements (pearl white models)
    * TCO-95 environmental label (Business Black models)
    * Twin video inputs allow the P260 color monitors to be connected to two computer systems at once using a convenient switch on the front bezel
    * The P260 color monitors have a 21-inch FD Trinitron CRT with a 19.8-inch (503-mm) viewable image size, and a 0.24-mm aperture grille pitch. A maximum horizontal frequency of 121 kHz delivers an optimum 1600 x 1200 pels at 85 Hz and higher refresh rates such as 1920 x 1440 pels at up to 75 Hz refresh rate.
    * The P260 color monitors are capable of ENERGY STAR and NUTEK power management via DPMS; monitor Plug and Play via DDC; ISO 9241-3 image quality, and refitted with a universal voltage power supply for worldwide operation."

The bolded part tells me this monitor is a high-end PC monitor, probably suitable for graphic design.  It is acceptable for a MAME cabinet, but you will not be able to do native arcade resolutions on it.  It is also undesirable compared to your other monitors for a few other reasons:

Flat Screen-  I find these unpleasing for arcade games.  Others may offer a more positive opinion.  But for me it makes the games "flat" and takes away some of the warmth and warp of the image that feels more "arcadey" to me.

High Dot pitch- These monitors have a very very sharp image and will make low-res arcade games look extremely blocky.  This is another highly personal preference though.  BUT you will have super thick scanlines that are not acceptable from the viewing angle and distance of an upright arcade game.  I have a 21" Trinitron on my desktop (I'm typing this post on it) and it is horrible for arcade games.  Additionally the dot pitch is actually of the "stripe pitch" type that is technically incorrect for classic arcade games, but I'm nitpicking.

No native resolutions- however, you will be able to use the semi-native mode of running at twice the refresh rate to preserve an identical image, but with less flickering.  This isn't really a big deal.

Normally I would say those IBM monitors would be a fine choice for a MAME cab, but given what your other choices are I would put them at the bottom of the list. 

Now, if you really do have an extensive warehouse I would recommend you have a look around and see if you have an Mitsubishi Diamond scan or Diamond Pro monitors.  These are much much better candidates for a MAME cab and came in the 19" sizes.  Also any Nanao monitor is worth having a look at. 

[pjflip]

Thanks.
I don't have any of the mitsubishis you mentioned.  I have a bunch of Sony Multiscan and Panasonic Panasync .  I also have some multisync monitors from IBM, DELL, Compaq, KDS, and Koyo.

Thanks

[Jack Burton]

Multiscan and Panasync are only 31khz and up in the 19"+ ranges.  I think there are a few 15khz capable 14" ones.

http://monitorworld.com/

is a great source for finding out a lot of scan rates quickly, but don't trust it as the final say.  A lot of the information on there is untested, and quite a few monitors will go lower than it says. 

I'm going to guess nothing from IBM, Dell, or Compaq will be 15khz capable.  Koyo is an unfamiliar brand to me, but going by the looks of a quick google search they make small video monitors.  Some of these may be useful as a 15khz monitor, but I doubt any will be multisync.  I wonder what the quality of their screen is?

I really should just get around to writing a multisync-monitor-to-MAME FAQ.

[pjflip]

Thanks for all of your help.