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You too can do KILLER vectors at 15khz!!
Level42:
Which shows that a lot of people simply don't understand how a vector monitor really works and that that is why it is impossible to recreate the look on anything other than a CRT.
I bet Genesim hadn't even ever SEEN a real vector.
What Xiaou2 says is correct. The fact that it doesn't create a raster gives a vector monitor it's impressive picture. A raster monitor scans each and every dot on the screen. Even if it gets the signal "completely dark" there is a very small signal which does light up the phosphor just a little bit.
On a vector that doesn't happen because the beam NEVER touches the phosphor where it is not steered over (that it, except for the "retrace" lines (the parts where the beam moves but is "turned off").
Because of the extremely dark picture where there's nothing on the screen compared to a raster monitor, vectors have a much more bright looking picture. This is further enhanced by either slowing the beam down or drawing the same line quickly a couple of times. This makes that a vector has much more _contrast_ than a raster.
However, the CRT's used in a vector are _THE SAME_ as CRT's in a raster monitor. So yes, of course does a color vector have a shadow mask. How else would it be able to separate the colors ?
This also explains why a b/w vector looks more impressive than a color (IMHO). There's no shadow mask. It really looks very much like an oscilloscope.
Here is an excellent explanation by Jed Margolin, one of the creator's of games like Star Wars:
http://jedmargolin.com/xy/xymon.htm
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 01:34:51 am ---Because of the extremely dark picture where there's nothing on the screen compared to a raster monitor, vectors have a much more bright looking picture. This is further enhanced by either slowing the beam down or drawing the same line quickly a couple of times. This makes that a vector has much more _contrast_ than a raster.
--- End quote ---
Not exactly. A raster beam is never more than a dot...never. When that dot needs to be in all possible places on a screen in a small fraction of a second, such as with a standard scanning display, this reduces the amount of time it can be in any one place at any given time, which reduces the duty cycle and limits brightness. Vector monitors, on the other hand, simply paint the graphics with the raster. This means it can spend more time energizing the phosphors and thus they glow brighter.
--- Quote ---However, the CRT's used in a vector are _THE SAME_ as CRT's in a raster monitor. So yes, of course does a color vector have a shadow mask. How else would it be able to separate the colors ?
--- End quote ---
Don't forget "quadrascan" vector monitors. Supposedly, there were two layers of phosphor on the things so you could get another color by pumping more energy into the phosphor and penetrating the first layer so the second would glow as well.
RandyT
Bluedeath:
--- Quote from: genesim on May 31, 2009, 07:16:31 pm ---This is hard to keep up! What is the advantage of LED backlight?
--- End quote ---
led back light can be zoned so you don't have light in the black areas, normal LCD backlight is a simple arrays of small fluorescent tubes. even the best LCD panel will allow a small percentage of light filters trough it, plus LED elements have a lifespan grater than fluorescent tubes.
But as Eldon Tyrrel would say "all of this is academic"
Level42:
--- Quote from: RandyT on June 09, 2009, 02:59:43 am ---
--- Quote from: Level42 on June 09, 2009, 01:34:51 am ---Because of the extremely dark picture where there's nothing on the screen compared to a raster monitor, vectors have a much more bright looking picture. This is further enhanced by either slowing the beam down or drawing the same line quickly a couple of times. This makes that a vector has much more _contrast_ than a raster.
--- End quote ---
Not exactly. A raster beam is never more than a dot...never. When that dot needs to be in all possible places on a screen in a small fraction of a second, such as with a standard scanning display, this reduces the amount of time it can be in any one place at any given time, which reduces the duty cycle and limits brightness. Vector monitors, on the other hand, simply paint the graphics with the raster. This means it can spend more time energizing the phosphors and thus they glow brighter.
--- End quote ---
But........that is _exactly_ what I wrote ::)
--- Quote from: RandyT on June 09, 2009, 02:59:43 am ---Don't forget "quadrascan" vector monitors. Supposedly, there were two layers of phosphor on the things so you could get another color by pumping more energy into the phosphor and penetrating the first layer so the second would glow as well.
--- End quote ---
Quadrascan was simply the name that Atari used for XY monitors (B/W and color). Because they were writing the "four quadrants" of the screen.
http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/ARCADE/S-Z/Wells%20Gardner%20Quadrascan%20%5BSpare%20Part%20List%5D%20%5BEnglish%5D.pdf
If those monitors with two phosphor layers existed, on which games were they used ?
[Edit]OK those kind of CRT's existed when they started to experiment with color TV and later they were used in avionics, but I really don't know about any games using it ?
Here's some technical info, it's called Penetron (sounds like something completely different..... ;)):
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Penetron
I think these tubes were probably more expensive than a regular color CRT and limited in color use. At least, the WG6100 and Amplifone's didn't use them. Of course, the Amplifone is mid-res, but it's still a regular CRT (the same CRT has been used in mid-res raster games).
Ummon:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on June 09, 2009, 12:07:29 am ---
--- Quote ---Incidentally, I always remembered some kind of 'scan lines' on Tempest. I think RayB said this was due to the shadow mask, but they are there, as I saw a couple years ago on a local machine.
--- End quote ---
*Slaps Head* :banghead: :dizzy:
Scan Lines are kinda formed from drawing each Line in rows. (simplified)
These are not present on vector monitors, because vectors can start drawing anywhere on the screen, and follow a shape 'pathway'. NOT a Uniform row or column.
A vector monitor does not make a picture out of individual pixels/dots. It would draw a
square in 4 movements. Not 20 pixels from left to right, top to bottom.. such as a raster
monitor would.
The lines you see "ARE" the Shadowmask lines. The mask is a grill that holds the
individual color phosphors. The black and white vector needs no mask, as the entire
monitor is simply coated in a single phosphor that glows white when excited.
--- End quote ---
I think you misunderstood that I was saying I saw something that seemed similar in appearance.
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