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15KHZ on a 31KHZ Monitor

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CheffoJeffo:
Let's see if I can do this without saint being subjected to a flurry of PMs demanding that I be removed from the boards ... fingers crossed ...


--- Quote from: genesim on May 13, 2009, 09:00:42 am ---Or how about answering the direct question?  

Even on here there is conflicting information.


--- Quote ---MAME doesn't produce any video signals. 
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---all models of the arcadeVGA and advancemame are capable of sending "true" 15khz signals to an arcade monitor.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

MAME <> advanceMAME


--- Quote from: advanceMAME_Docs ---The official Windows MAME is forced by Windows drivers to select a video mode from a prefixed list of mode sizes and clocks. If the emulated game requires a not standard mode size the emulator must stretch the game image to fit the screen (losing in quality). If the emulated games requires a not standard clock the emulator must play the game without synchronizing with the video vertical retrace (generating the tearing disturb on scrolling game) or display frames for different time (generating a not constant scrolling).
--- End quote ---

Of particular relevance to your questions and this thread are the following two bits of wisdom:


--- Quote from: advanceMAME_Docs ---AdvanceMAME has the ability to directly control your video board to get the best possible video modes with always the correct size and aspect ratio.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: advanceMAME_Docs ---On Fixed Frequency monitors you are physically limited on the choice of Horizontal Frequency in the video mode. In this case AdvanceMAME takes care of your monitor's limitations and in the most cases is able to use a video mode with the correct size but not with the correct frequency due to the monitor's limitations. For example for the game "Pac-Man" and a VGA monitor (31.5 kHz) a video mode of 400x288 at 100 Hz (perfect size) is used.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: genesim on May 13, 2009, 09:00:42 am ---

--- Quote ---The arcade monitor would be what is using the 15khz, not the PC monitor.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---(referring to Arcade VGA on Ultimarc's site)All the native game resolutions are available on both the arcade and the PC monitor.
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

OBJECTION!! Asked and Answered!

Resolution <> Scan Rate

As I have suggested, far too many times for either of us to be happy about it, you need to at least try to understand the differences between Scan Rate, Resolution and Refresh Rate (also Frame Rate, since it is different and you keep citing it in your rants).

Start with this basic equation:

Refresh Rate = .95 x (Scan Rate / # Lines)



--- Quote from: genesim on May 13, 2009, 09:00:42 am ---Then of course this is this.


--- Quote ---About the only things that I have seen put out 15KHz are arcade PCBs and CGA video cards
--- End quote ---

Then I say:

--- Quote ---If this is true, then what is the purpose of Advance MAME?
--- End quote ---

So then a retort happens that says this.


--- Quote ---MAME doesn't produce any video signals. 
--- End quote ---


So what happens...I get corrected with:


--- Quote ---all models of the arcadeVGA and advancemame are capable of sending "true" 15khz signals to an arcade monitor.
--- End quote ---

How about correcting others instead and tell them to read the wiki??

I was originally asking the question, but it seems that I understood it correct from the beginning which is MAME behaves like a PCB when paired with a graphics card, so the end result can be what Arcade VGA offers...either true 15khz signal or scalled 15khz signal to a PC Monitor.

Which goes back to my first post, yeah...Arcade VGA can do a 15khz to 31khz conversion.

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

--- End quote ---


Read as per above ... and, please, do read the wiki and the AdvanceMAME FAQ and related stuff -- there is lots of good information there and there is the added bonus that the wiki won't slap you down when you call it names !

 ;)

AndyWarne:
The ArcadeVGA card does not send a 15Khz horizontal refresh rate to a PC monitor because, as has been mentioned, this would cause an "out of range" message.
What is does do, however, is present the Mame painted screen at the same resolution it was painted at (provided stretch is disabled).
So it will present for example a 320 X 240 graphical screen on a PC monitor. Normally this low resolution would be impossible to scan at 31Khz but it can be done by sending two horizontal sync pulses per line. Although this technically could be thought of as scaling, it is an exact multiple of two, so there is no distortion, the original resolution is intact.
LCD monitors dont have any concept of scanlines so the result of this is simply larger pixels than a (for example) 640 X 480 resolution, exactly what is required.
When used with an arcade monitor it does actually scan at 15Khz of course.
Andy

genesim:
People, notice the slight of hand of Cheffo.

Never said MAME equals Advance MAME.

Hence this quote:


--- Quote ---If this is true, then what is the purpose of Advance MAME?
--- End quote ---

Common sense would tell you that was what I was speaking about.   But I am not sure that MAME doesn't do this too because it works with arcade VGA.

But the bigger slight of hand is your completely ignoring your other quote:


--- Quote ---About the only things that I have seen put out 15KHz are arcade PCBs and CGA video cards
--- End quote ---

There has been no confusion.  Care to explain this?  I have asked you numerous times now.   

Supposedly doing a gotcha on Advance MAME vs MAME and completely ignoring my quote is how you often work.

Isn't this another slight of hand?

Again, if people would actually read what I wrote there would be no confusion.   

Not being disrespectful here, but most people would not like this kind of behavior.

That...and I also have never demanded you being removed from the board.   Actually what I have asked is how I can be banned for doing nothing different from what you have been doing.    Big difference.  Another slight of hand.

All this is probably going to get me removed though because I am against the group.

No sarcasm and no "pot shots" here.   I am just speaking the truth.

XXXXXXX

Andy,

Thanks for clarifying what I have been saying from the beginning.   It is a scaling of a 15khz to 31khz.   If it is an exact multiple it the classic definition of scaling.

genesim:

--- Quote ---(referring to Arcade VGA on Ultimarc's site)All the native game resolutions are available on both the arcade and the PC monitor.
--- End quote ---



--- Quote from: Cheffo ---OBJECTION!! Asked and Answered!

Resolution <> Scan Rate

As I have suggested, far too many times for either of us to be happy about it, you need to at least try to understand the differences between Scan Rate, Resolution and Refresh Rate (also Frame Rate, since it is different and you keep citing it in your rants).

Start with this basic equation:

Refresh Rate = .95 x (Scan Rate / # Lines)
--- End quote ---

Another slight of hand.   This quote that I said originally was in reference to the original game resolution being displayed.   It was not saying that it was equivalent in that refresh rate = resolution

The key word is NATIVE.   There is only one way this is truly possible while maintaining the correct refresh rate...SCALING.

Must take the time to comprehend rather passing swift judgement.   

genesim:
Dagnabbit.

Fixing this line since I can't edit:

The key word is NATIVE.   There is only one way this(MAXIMIZED resolution) is truly possible while maintaining the correct refresh rate(that is scaled to fit within the difined parameters of a modern day PC which cannot take that low refresh rate with said resolution)...SCALING.

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