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Suzo- Happ PC Arcade Spinner? Plug and Play?

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RandyT:

--- Quote from: AndyWarne on March 01, 2009, 04:05:55 am ---I think you are still getting confused. Full Speed USB is not specific to USB 2.0. This was in the original USB 1.1 standard. There is no compatibility issue.

A device which runs only FS USB is not any different between USB 1.1 and USB 2.0. The device only becomes different when its capable of running High Speed USB which is specific to USB 2.0

Don't take my word for it, check the USB 2.0 spec. Page 122, table 7.1:

--- End quote ---

The spec is the spec.  Individual implementations are a different story.  How many folks here have had issue with USB encoders made for 1.1 on 1.1 machines?  It happens over and over again, when it probably shouldn't, according to the spec.

Regardless, if what you are saying is true, then you have established publicly that there is no advantage whatsoever to a "USB 2.0" spinner, and that those claims are pure "marketing fluff".  We have already established that the only functional difference with a non-high-speed device is the need to install a widely used and well tested driver on some OS's, which can yield a poll rate for that device which is twice that of the "USB 2.0 hardware"....if the user desires. 

Or, have I misunderstood?

RandyT

Derrick Renaud:

--- Quote from: RandyT on February 28, 2009, 12:51:51 pm ---Centipede has never played well
--- End quote ---

This has been a common complaint and I would like to hear more from owners of an actual cabinet or those that have access to one.

First thing I noticed in the code is that it internally scales to input by 4.  So even though you would normally set a trackball to 25% MAME analog sensitivity, you don't do that for Centipede.  Centipede should be at 100% if you are using the same 2.25" trackball.

What I would like to know is how the original game plays is you swap in a 3" trackball.  Would it play the same as MAME at 100% sensitivity?  At 100% Mame seems to slow/backspin if you move fast.  But regular game play is more responsive.

I know the numbers failed me on Hi-res backspin, but lets see how the numbers work for centipede.

First we can assume a 2.25 trackball would be set to 100%, so lets convert the circumference values.  2.25PI/3PI = .75 = 75% sensitivity.

Seems quite responsive for regular gameplay.  But moving the trackball fast can still cause lag.  Is this because you can more easily move a larger trackball faster?  :dunno

So i guess we need to know how the newest MAME plays with 100% sensitivity on a real Centipede 2.25 ball.  What happens when spun fast?

It would be nice to see good video of the player movement on a real machine when the player is spun quickly from one side to the other with both 2.25" and 3" trackballs.

RandyT:
It may be time for a "Fixing Centipede Control" thread :)


--- Quote from: Derrick Renaud on March 01, 2009, 01:39:05 pm ---First thing I noticed in the code is that it internally scales to input by 4.  So even though you would normally set a trackball to 25% MAME analog sensitivity, you don't do that for Centipede.  Centipede should be at 100% if you are using the same 2.25" trackball.

--- End quote ---

Let me be the first to say that most aren't using 2.25" trackballs. A sale of one is a bit of an anomaly for us.  If a builder has space for a 3-incher (and they aren't much larger than the 2.25", BTW) in it goes.

So this is probably significant.


--- Quote ---First we can assume a 2.25 trackball would be set to 100%, so lets convert the circumference values.  2.25PI/3PI = .75 = 75% sensitivity.

--- End quote ---

I don't have an original Atari 2.25" unit in front of me, but I can tell you that it may not be that straight-forward.  The Imperial variety  2.25", which I will assume is the same for "parts swapping" reasons, has a different diameter roller internally.  It is 1/16" larger in diameter, which means that the action is geared down even further than just as a result of the smaller ball.  Exactly the opposite action one would expect.


--- Quote ---Seems quite responsive for regular gameplay.  But moving the trackball fast can still cause lag.  Is this because you can more easily move a larger trackball faster?  :dunno

--- End quote ---

Quite possible, but I'm not sure that is the issue.  I used to play a fair bit of Centipede "in the day" and recall a much more "real-time" feel.  Pretty much like a mouse pointer.  Moving from one side of the screen to the other is normally very fast, and necessary to play the game well.  For some reason, when trying to do this in MAME, I recall it being more of a "capped speed" sensation, where the maximum wasn't sufficient.



--- Quote ---So i guess we need to know how MAME plays with 100% sensitivity on a real Centipede 2.25 ball.  What happens when spun fast?

It would be nice to see good video of the player movement on a real machine when the player is spun quickly from one side to the other with both 2.25" and 3" trackballs.

--- End quote ---

I'll see what I can do about the 2.25" test, but here's one that I was able to pretty much verify wasn't a video of someone playing MAME.  Something which is difficult to do when searching.  It seems to have a "snappiness" in movement that differentiates it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbM2XaR3tXQ[/youtube]

Derrick Renaud:

--- Quote from: RandyT on March 01, 2009, 02:57:28 pm ---It may be time for a "Fixing Centipede Control" thread :)


--- Quote from: Derrick Renaud on March 01, 2009, 01:39:05 pm ---First we can assume a 2.25 trackball would be set to 100%, so lets convert the circumference values.  2.25PI/3PI = .75 = 75% sensitivity.

--- End quote ---

I don't have an original Atari 2.25" unit in front of me, but I can tell you that it may not be that straight-forward.  The Imperial variety 2.25", which I will assume is the same for "parts swapping" reasons, has a different diameter roller internally.  It is 1/16" larger in diameter, which means that the action is geared down even further than just as a result of the smaller ball.  Exactly the opposite action one would expect.

--- End quote ---

Good point.

Thanks for the video.  That actually shows the problem quite well.  I had youtubed up a few videos, but no one was moving their player around as fast as that.  So then yes, it looks like Mame has a problem.  So I don't really need to see any other video.

I'll see if I can do anything.  But from first look at the code, it seems that the trackball port handling should be OK.  And the port is read from the CPU directly, so maybe an IRQ issue or  :dunno , but I'll look.

Morpheus:
I read this whole thread, but I still have two questions. Which spinner is better? or are they both good products?  Could people who have on or the other (Or both) just give their experience with their spinner...

Thanks!

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