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Sidewinder Dual Strike Hack--potential problem

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jukingeo:
Hello all,

I was just recently going over my options for a game controller hack and the contenders where the PS2 controller and the MS Sidewinder Dual Strike.  Both feature analog/digital inputs.

My goal was to create a cabinet with an interchangeable panel option.  The most controls I figured I would have are two joysticks 8/4 way 6 playing buttons, Player 1 & 2 start and coin up.  I wanted to do this on ONE usb controller hack.  Once again it seemed that either the PS2 controller or Dual Strike would fit the bill.

If you been following my posts I made here, I did an elaborate detail on mapping out the Playstation 2 controller in both analog and digital modes.   I figured the number of mappable inputs are 14 and 24 respectively.

I found that the 14 inputs of the PS2 digital mode to be restricting and would prefer to keep it in the analog mode.  However, the PS2 controller has an irritating habit of reverting always to the digital mode on power up.  So I really couldn't have this.  But the deal killer for the PS2 controller was prior reading of unsuccessful hacks of the analog controls.

So with that information I decided to check out the Sidewinder Dual Strike controller.   This controller has one fixed mode, so there is no switching to worry about.  I would have 9 digital buttons (one less as compared to the PS2 controller and the Dpad for digital inputs and I would have two axis of analog control (two less as compared to the PS2 controller).   However, I figured out that if I gave myself a "choice" of wiring the  analog controls as digital then I would actually end up with more mappable inputs than the PS2 controller.   What more is that when I change control panels, I could have a choice in how to wire up the analog controls.

Since it has been proven that the analog hacks are successful, this seemed like the way to go (without having to resort to using TWO controllers).  I would JUST fit it in with my initial control panel design (analog inputs converted to digital).

Since I have a couple Dual Strike controllers already, I proceed with the hack last night.   I took apart the controller and examined the circuit board for common connections and how the push-buttons are wired in.

Much to my dismay I made a rather startling discovery.  It appears that the Dual Strike controller is using a key matrix rather than a direct hookup.   The initial giveaway was the presence of many dual diode blocks on the PCB.  This discovery has me worried about ghosting and blocking (masking).

Given the original design of the Dual Strike I can see how ghosting/blocking wouldn't be too much of an issue.   The dual strike is meant to be operated only by four fingers with two fingers on a trigger button and the thumbs controlling the rest of the game pad.  So needless to say, there are really only one or two places that thumb could be (for each hand).    But an arcade controller hack is way different.

Since my design is a two joystick 6 button panel there will be times two players will be using it and that means all the joystick axises and as many as all six buttons could be pressed at once.

So this is my question:

Has anyone done a full controller panel using a full hack of the Sidewinder Dual Strike controller?  If so, was it successful and were there any problems of ghosting or blocking?

Thank You,

Geo

Neverending Project:
You will need to add diodes to mask some of the button switches. If you check the wiki, there is some information about pinouts and which buttons are masked. I know you can get 4, possibly 5 or 6 discreet buttons without any additional masking. But check the wiki on the Dual Strike hack for more info.

jukingeo:

--- Quote from: Neverending Project on December 12, 2008, 06:58:06 pm ---You will need to add diodes to mask some of the button switches. If you check the wiki, there is some information about pinouts and which buttons are masked. I know you can get 4, possibly 5 or 6 discreet buttons without any additional masking. But check the wiki on the Dual Strike hack for more info.

--- End quote ---

Hello,

Thanx for the info, but if this is the Dual Strike Wiki you were referring to;

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Dual_Strike_Hack

That Wiki needs some updating.  The first link is dead, the second one doesn't give any information on diodes, the third references the first link, and the last link DID mention the diodes, but there were no diagrams of where to put them or anything.

Are there other sources I can look into?

Perhaps I should look into a better controller hack (perhaps a flight stick, which usually has a good assortment of analog controls) that doesn't have the matrix problem.

Thanx

Geo

Havok:
jukingeo - this is a new age, where friends don't let friends hack controllers. Do yourself a favor, buy an encoder. One that has more inputs, more possibilities and no ghosting. Need analog and digital, plus buttons? Try this:

http://www.u-hid.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=4

Now stop looking at both those controllers, and get something that will be 100 times better!

jukingeo:

--- Quote from: Havok on December 12, 2008, 10:31:16 pm ---jukingeo - this is a new age, where friends don't let friends hack controllers. Do yourself a favor, buy an encoder. One that has more inputs, more possibilities and no ghosting. Need analog and digital, plus buttons? Try this:
Now stop looking at both those controllers, and get something that will be 100 times better!

--- End quote ---

Oh, I am very well aware of the existence of controller interfaces all the way back from when Hagstrom introduced the KE-24.   Do I want to use something like this? Would I love something like the U-Hid controller?   Of course I do.  However, these controllers come with a substantial price tag attached to them of around $80.   This is a price tag of which I am sorry to say I cannot afford right now.

You are correct in saying that this is "new age".  It is a new age of a poor economy in the US and many jobs are affected by it, including mine.  While I will spare everyone from the gory details of living in lean times, I can pretty much say that I cannot afford to spend $50 to $100 (+ shipping) on a dedicated interface.     

I CAN afford to buy an old gamepad for $6 to $12 and have the electronic know how to make the best of that and hack it. 

But in all fairness as to what you are getting at, I DID just learn about this unit tonight:

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_81&products_id=234

It sells for $25.95 and that does put it in a "doable" price range.  I might go with this for my general gaming buttons, but since it doesn't handle analog controls, I may still use the Dual Strike for that purpos.  I am still doing research on it though.

Geo





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