Arcade Collecting > Pinball
Stern layoffs
RayB:
Xiau, you seem to be arguing there's a market for new machines, and yet at the same time, supporting the reasons why there isn't enough of a market...
There are pinball machines floating out there from rmore than 6 decades worth of manufacturing. They are all for the most part second hand machines. A crap load of those sales have very little overhead cost. Someone finds bargains on craigslist, or in a warehouse, cleans them up, then sells them for a profit. Those guys don't have the overhead of having to order X # of minimum parts to keep costs down, then assemble it all, and then try to make a profit on top of their base costs, manufacturing labour, factory lease, insurance, marketing, distribution, (ad nauseum).
So go for it dude. Try selling brand new machines that are somehow better than Stern's yet cost less, and make a profit on top. Stern already acknowledged that half their sales go to the home market (and yet we're talking less than 10,000 machines per year).
The only way it could work IMO would be to shift all the manufacturing to China and really cut down on features. No coin door. Fewer or no mechanical toys. Generic parts. You'd end up with something half way between a Stern and a "Zizzle" toy. Who'd want that? Not the guys you pointed out buying $2000 machines off Ebay.
PS: Another caveat is the machines on ebay that sell for big coin retain their value. Purchase something new though, and you sure as hell are not going to get that much when you decide to sell it. So you can't compare collectibles to new items equally.
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: RayB on November 03, 2008, 01:37:38 pm ---The only way it could work IMO would be to shift all the manufacturing to China and really cut down on features. No coin door. Fewer or no mechanical toys. Generic parts. You'd end up with something half way between a Stern and a "Zizzle" toy. Who'd want that?
--- End quote ---
You'd end up with almost any pin made in the 80s. Seems to me a lot of those games are pretty good. Hard to say if they would be competitive on location now, though. It boggles my mind that people don't want pinball but they will throw plastic balls into the mouth of a huge fat chick.
shardian:
--- Quote from: ChadTower on November 03, 2008, 01:47:09 pm ---You'd end up with almost any pin made in the 80s. Seems to me a lot of those games are pretty good. Hard to say if they would be competitive on location now, though. It boggles my mind that people don't want pinball but they will throw plastic balls into the mouth of a huge fat chick.
--- End quote ---
I still don't understand why Stern never added a ticket dispenser option to their pins. I have heard it from so many people it is ridiculous - "That game doesn't give out tickets. Why would I play that?"
Sad but true, that is why the pins never get played by the young-uns at the gambling training centers...I mean Chuck-E-Cheese.
If there were a ticket dispensing option, there would be a person at the game non-stop.
ChadTower:
Idiots that spend $15 playing crappy games to get $1.25 worth of useless crap. It's like the lottery - a voluntary tax on people who are bad at math.
Xiaou2:
--- Quote ---collectors are still spending, but the economic downturn has pushed most collectors back to the cheaper used market.
--- End quote ---
WHAT?! Are you NUTS?!
Collectors seek out GOOD GAMES. Its matters not if they are new or old. In fact,
they will pay MORE for a USED OLD game that is BETTER than a POS STERN.
Why buy a brand new machine that is inferior in Art quality, sound Quality,
Gamplay Quality...etc?!
Thats the damn point. Make a Pin that is WORTH BUYING AND PEOPLE WILL BUY IT!
Lets look at some numbers:
Pinball Machine Machines Sold
------------------------------------------------------------
Adams Family 20,270
Indiana Jones (Williams) 12,716
Creature from the Black Lagoon 7841
Theatre of Magic 6600
Bad Cats: 2,500
Congo 2129
Hmm, can you tell me which games had Horrific Theme choices from the
sales figures? Or could you simply tell by looking at the names?
It dont take a Rocket Scientist to make the connection here. You pick a crappy
theme... add poor gameplay... and you get **** for sales.
Lets look at a Stern:
Monopoly 3640
Lord of the Rings 5100
( Id put up other Stern Figures.. But I assume they must be very low cause they
simply are not posted anywhere)
Hmmm, Monopoly?! What the hell kind of Pinball theme is that?! You really
think it was bad economy that lead to such low sales?! Nope. It was HORRIBLE
THEME CHOICE.
LOTR did better clearly... however, if anyone has played LOTR for a bit... well,
its really not that good. Still... at least it 'Looks' decent... and is one of the few Sterns
that has an 'ok' gameplay to it. Still.. .most people when given the choice of buying
a LOTR and a Theatre of Magic... will always choose the TOM. Its simply a better
game all around.
But what we really dont see... which would be the real kicker... is "on location"
earnings. Place a Monopoly, Ripleys, Wheel of Fortune, Nascar..etc.. next to any
of those Williams machines and you will quickly see the difference at the end of week.
You really think Ripleys, World Poker Tour, or CSI will sell well in even a Good
economy???!!! Get real man. Its utter garbage that only the truly tasteless
would desire. If Ive offended you... Tough cookies. Lack or interest & Sales prove it.
The masses dont agree with your assessments/opinions.
--- Quote ---"It boggles my mind that people don't want pinball but they will throw plastic balls into the mouth of a huge fat chick."
--- End quote ---
One of the main reasons... is that the ball eaters usually actually Work 100% most
of the time when you go to play them. Unlike Pinball, which is usually riddled with
mechanical problems, many that could be avoided with better designs and materials.
Pinball basically died, because the fans who love the game simply got tired of dropping coins in broken machines that are no fun to play.
--- Quote ---A crap load of those sales have very little overhead cost.
--- End quote ---
I was making the point that People have money to spend on Pinball Machines.... and
do so EVERY DAY. If you believe that the economy is bad... fine... but then, why
are people Still buying Pins EVERY DAY on EBAY??? Thousands of machines are sold
each day. Thats a LOT of money, and a HUGE customer base.
If someone has the choice between buying a $3500 Williams Indiana Jones...
and the latest greatest New machine that stomps it in looks, sound, rules/depth,
and gameplay... for only $1500 more... its going to be a case of pinball fever ripping
the credit card right out of the wallet for the new machine. Afford it or not.. people
buy what they desire. SOme who cant afford it now, may buy 2 used machines.. and
later sell them off to buy a brand new pin. Or will go so far as to sell off other
things from other hobbies to make the money needed.
But, as stated over and over... its got to be Worth it. Its got to be a real
masterpiece. Its got to be a great theme, great art, great play, modern technology.
Only a select few Mindless Ops would bust out the wallet for Wheel Of Fortune. lol
My Grama sure aint buying one, and shes watched the show forever! lol
--- Quote ---"Try selling brand new machines that are somehow better than Stern's yet cost less"
--- End quote ---
Who said anything about costing less?
Fist off... Wasnt Williams machines selling for about the same as what Stern sells their
TURDS for now?
As for my opinion... I believe pins could be made sold at higher prices and still sell
better than sterns in the crappiest economy. An object of great desire will Always
hold value, and always will be bought.
--- Quote ---"Re: Wirlwind: NO ONE ever plays it."
--- End quote ---
Wirlwind isnt the best title. In fact, I think it plays like crap. But beyond that, Just
how well does it even work? Id be willing to bet its beat to hell with sensors that
dont register, sticking flippers, slow play cause its so filthy..etc.
Put in a decent title like MM or Indy... and have it working 100% and it would get
played.
When I was like 15, I walked into my local arcade.. and there was a new pin.
Black Knight 2000. Id played a few other pins there like Funhouse, and some
others... but they were not that fun, so didnt really put much into them. But I figure
id give this one a try...
The Sound Track was Rockin. The ball was lightning fast... and the lightshow was
spectacular. I was hooked. I must have dropped $15 into that machine that night
playing nearly nonstop and Loving it. The most I had ever put into a pin in a night
may have been a single dollar at most.
I came back next weekend to play... however, this time... the Flipper that makes
the shot up to the main ramp wasnt working well. It became underpowered... and so
no matter what, you couldnt get the upper playfeild... and it Ruined the game. I left
after the 1st game in frustration. They never fixed it properly, and eventually, the
game was gone, never to be seen again.
Making Pins more reliable would have kept that machine earning very well... and
Ops would have made their money back and a ton of profit on top. Yet, with
crapily designed machines that take way too much maintenance... and the Ops arnt
going to be able to keep it up enough to actually make good money on it.
Customers will always think the thing is bused, even when its been fixed... because
of bad past experiences. And soon, the pin is being sold away or sitting in the corner
collecting dust, not paying for itself, and not making any profit... and the Ops not
going to buy another one...
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