p90x

[Vigo]

When I stopped eating lunches, I lost a lot of weight right away, probably 15 pounds. Now that my body is used to conserving as much as possible, I don't lose any weight, and as soon as I have a period where I eat more than one meal, I actually begin gaining weight. My body is definitely is starvation combat mode. No myth about it.

Back when I used to do long distance running, I couldn't help but lose weight on no matter how much food I would shove down my throat. I want to go back to that, but the long work hours and a kid make it more difficult to do. I think I will start to reintroduce a small second meal into my diet and maybe get some weekend exercise in. I might not lose any weight, but I should have more energy every day.

[ChadTower]

I want to go back to that, but the long work hours and a kid make it more difficult to do.

I used to work ten hours a day, had two small kids, and lifted ~7 hours a week.  The time is there.  You just have to find it.  I had to use 8:30-10pm to get it done.  I know lots of folks who go the other way and do it at 5am. 

[Vigo]

I want to go back to that, but the long work hours and a kid make it more difficult to do.

I used to work ten hours a day, had two small kids, and lifted ~7 hours a week.  The time is there.  You just have to find it.  I had to use 8:30-10pm to get it done.  I know lots of folks who go the other way and do it at 5am. 

Aww...8:30-10pm is my video game time slot.   

Yeah, I know I am going to need to make the time. I am actually renovating my house right now, and when I am finished I will have my own exercise/game room. My free time is mostly filled with house work right now. I'll am planning on getting my act together and making exercise time as soon as I am finished in late August.

[shmokes]

The Warrior Diet, which has a stupid name, is based on the premise that evolutionarily, we are not meant to eat multiple meals per day.  As hunters/gatherers, we used to spend the day hunting and only had a big meal at the end of the day once we were safe from harm. 

As hunters/gatherers we used to have a lifespan of 35 years.  As part time hunters/gatherers we had a lifespan of 50 years.  Factoring out truly advanced medical care what would the average lifespan be now?  60?  We evolved away from many things because we found better ways to do them.

I'm on my way out the door, so I can't read/respond to all the activity here.  But our increased longevity is almost entirely the result of modern sewage and immunizations.  Everything else is just icing.

[SNAAKE]

Warrior diet?  Is that what you feed a 16 year old farm boy before you put a club/sword/gun in his hand and send him off to die?

exactly

Id know. I was on the warrior diet before and survived

[shateredsoul1979]

I'm doing 6am, but 5am, wow

I want to go back to that, but the long work hours and a kid make it more difficult to do.

I used to work ten hours a day, had two small kids, and lifted ~7 hours a week.  The time is there.  You just have to find it.  I had to use 8:30-10pm to get it done.  I know lots of folks who go the other way and do it at 5am. 

[shmokes]

if you live in an area with an abundant food supply (as hunter-gatherer tribes, if they want to survive, tend to do) . . . .  The short life spans were primarily a result of having an inconsistent food supply . . . .

Well done.

[shmokes]

Here's what really matters about this diet as far as I'm concerned.  There is no way to seriously argue that there aren't fundamental problems with our society's diet.  To do so would be idiotic.  It goes without saying that there are innumerable ways to improve upon the way we tend to eat. 

I've been doing the Warrior Diet for a few weeks.  It's not very difficult and I feel really great.  That's all that I need for now.  But I'm certainly open to the possibility that I won't like it in the end.  At any rate, although I've given you the briefest glimpse of what it entails in terms of my daily activities, there is a body of science supporting it. 

[Vigo]

Well, as I just learned today, I guess I have been on the "Warrior diet" since February. 

Pretty much juice and water throughout the day, and then I'll have a big meal at night. I lost a 15 pounds right away, but then nothing afterward.  I also often have a harder time sleeping because I have heartburn more often when my body has so much to digest at night. If I ever visit my parents for a weekend, they make me 3 square meals a day. I can't eat much early in the day, and end up gaining weight every time I try.

The only upside is that I am not snacking so much anymore. I have potato chips that have been sitting untouched in my pantry for 6 months now. If I do snack, I grab fruit. Because I eat so much less, I am scrambling to eat the fruit before it goes bad. It's crazy how the temptation for junk food is not a worry anymore.

[ChadTower]

Ah, yes, the shmokes "to debate me would be crazy/idiotic/insane/ridiculous" point.  Always worth a laugh.   


I don't get why it's much of an issue.  Eat less in sum total and expend more in sum total.  It doesn't matter all that much if you're eating your 1700 calories in one shot or in 17 shots.  Same with burning calories.  Run 10 miles or run 1 mile 10 times.  The difference is not all that much and they both work.

The only difference that actually matters is how a person works the logistics into their lifestyle.  That can, and most often is, the difference between success and failure. 

[Hoopz]

Ah, yes, the shmokes or ChadTower or Xiaou2 or HowardCasto or MaximRecoil or Darren_Harris or ______ "to debate me would be crazy/idiotic/insane/ridiculous" point.  Always worth a laugh.   

Fixt.   

[shmokes]

Ah, yes, the shmokes "to debate me would be crazy/idiotic/insane/ridiculous" point.  Always worth a laugh.   

Over half of Americans are overweight, and about a third are full-on obese.  So yeah, to "argue that there aren't fundamental problems with our society's diet . . . would be idiotic."  Of course, you're not arguing that.  You're just taking a totally unwarranted swipe at me over a statement that you agree with 100%.  Which is also sort of idiotic.

[Donkbaca]

I don't get why it's much of an issue.  Eat less in sum total and expend more in sum total.  It doesn't matter all that much if you're eating your 1700 calories in one shot or in 17 shots.  Same with burning calories.  Run 10 miles or run 1 mile 10 times.  The difference is not all that much and they both work.

The only difference that actually matters is how a person works the logistics into their lifestyle.  That can, and most often is, the difference between success and failure.

The Power Tower is correct.  You lose weight when you eat better.  Just find some sort of rules that keep you away from junk - could be low carb, could be the whole "if it didn't grow, i won't eat it" whatever works best for you to eat more veggies and less twinkies

The best advice is to make it a priority.  We don't think about what we eat and put into our bodies, or make it a priority to be active.  Make your health a priority, pay attention and you will see results.

[Mikezilla]

Ah, yes, the shmokes "to debate me would be crazy/idiotic/insane/ridiculous" point.  Always worth a laugh.   

Over half of Americans are overweight, and about a third are full-on obese.  So yeah, to "argue that there aren't fundamental problems with our society's diet . . . would be idiotic."  Of course, you're not arguing that.  You're just taking a totally unwarranted swipe at me over a statement that you agree with 100%.  Which is also sort of idiotic.

Yeah but they are kinda crazy what they call "over weight". Im 6'3 and Im about 220 pounds. The stupid doctor says I should be at 190-200. I would look like a skeleton dipped in wax. Screw that. You have to take into the account that people dont necessarily mean to be obese, but parts of the country are too poor to eat healthy, and were never educated on it. But I do think Chads comment is funny.  

[Vigo]

Yeah but they are kinda crazy what they call "over weight". Im 6'3 and Im about 220 pounds. The stupid doctor says I should be at 190-200. I would look like a skeleton dipped in wax. Screw that. You have to take into the account that people dont necessarily mean to be obese, but parts of the country are too poor to eat healthy, and were never educated on it. But I do think Chads comment is funny. 

Same here. I know I have a gut, but nobody would call me obese. I have 20 pounds to lose to get to the weight I was when I was a highschool senior when I was a runner, football player and weight lifter. I was lean and mean.     Funny thing is I was still overweight then according to the bmi calculators. Now I qualify as obese, but i fit in size 34 pants just fine.

[shateredsoul1979]

Yeah I agree, a lot of people are obese due to income. I went to Guatemala for a conference a summer ago for 2 weeks. We ate 5 times a day, and boy was I stuffed. We even went out to drink and eat again at night sometimes... and I lost weight! I hardly walked, we didn't have any soda but aguas frescas (juices made using water, fruit, and a sugar cane concentrate called pilloncillo , see a pic http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Images/piloncillo-300.jpg ). The tortillas were actually made from freshly ground corn (in the USA and even Mexico most people use something called Mazeca, a processed white flour). I have no idea how I lost weight!

My dad also grew up in a rural area of Mexico where the diet consisted of squash, beans, rice, corn, yams, and lots of fruit. If you wanted meat you had to kill an animal or go to another nearby town about 30 mins away in car, there was no local meat markets, so they eat meat maybe once a week (and more chicken, cows and pigs were killed on special occasions or celebrations). He also mentions how when he was a kid everything was organic (when complaining about organic food prices). Unfortunately now they do use hormone even in rural areas, even on small farms. Sometimes I do gross my self out when I think about the meat we buy. If you think about it, meat starts rotting as soon as you kill the animal. So, I sometimes wonder, how much has this meat rotted in the time it took to get to the grocery store.. or get processed into whatever it is I'm buying.

Anyways, I'm paying 125 a month for crossfit, my most expensive bill next to my car payment, but I figure it's worth it for my health. Diabetes runs in my fam and so does high cholosterol. Yeah, you can go a few times then do it at home, but I don't have a group of guys interested enough to do that, and the group aspect of crossfit helps. I do disagree with some of what they teach though. For example, they usually discourage long runs/swims/bikes. I think a weekly long run, bike, or swim can be beneficial.

btw, does anyone know a good way to start building up strength for a pull up? I don't really like the swing kip pullup

Ah, yes, the shmokes "to debate me would be crazy/idiotic/insane/ridiculous" point.  Always worth a laugh.   

Over half of Americans are overweight, and about a third are full-on obese.  So yeah, to "argue that there aren't fundamental problems with our society's diet . . . would be idiotic."  Of course, you're not arguing that.  You're just taking a totally unwarranted swipe at me over a statement that you agree with 100%.  Which is also sort of idiotic.

Yeah but they are kinda crazy what they call "over weight". Im 6'3 and Im about 220 pounds. The stupid doctor says I should be at 190-200. I would look like a skeleton dipped in wax. Screw that. You have to take into the account that people dont necessarily mean to be obese, but parts of the country are too poor to eat healthy, and were never educated on it. But I do think Chads comment is funny.  

[shmokes]

Yeah but they are kinda crazy what they call "over weight".

See, I don't think you're really arguing this.  That would be idiotic.  The next time you go to a movie theater get there early and watch as people come into the theater.  Most Americans are visibly overweight.  Anyway, even if only a third were, that would be a serious problem.  We eat poorly here.  To seriously argue differently would be idiotic.

[shmokes]

The p90x way of building strength for pull ups is pull ups.  But put a chair or stool on the floor in front of you that you can put your toe on for an assist.  The further away the chair is, the less an assist your foot can give.  So you can keep moving the chair further until you can pull up without it.  Or keep it there, but unused, for the first however many reps you can do and then use the chair to push out a couple extra cheat reps to build more strength.

[Dartful Dodger]

Shmokes is on a diet and it's working for him and I appreciate him sharing his secret to success with us.

You naysayers are just bitter fat slobs and I know that "common sense" dieting  and "eating right is easy" gibberish isn't helping you (or me) in the least.

On that note it's time for me to take off for lunch. Since I didn't have time to make a lunch this morning I'm heading off to McDonalds.

I'll start the Warrior Diet next week.   

[shateredsoul1979]

The p90x way of building strength for pull ups is pull ups.  But put a chair or stool on the floor in front of you that you can put your toe on for an assist.  The further away the chair is, the less an assist your foot can give.  So you can keep moving the chair further until you can pull up without it.  Or keep it there, but unused, for the first however many reps you can do and then use the chair to push out a couple extra cheat reps to build more strength.

Can someone recommend a good doorway pullup bar? Extra credit if it's on Amazon.com so I can order it with prime.

[shmokes]

I've used a few and all have worked fine.  I can't say which particular ones I've used, but it's probably pretty safe to just go by the Amazon rating. 

[Vigo]

Yeah but they are kinda crazy what they call "over weight".

See, I don't think you're really arguing this.  That would be idiotic.  The next time you go to a movie theater get there early and watch as people come into the theater.  Most Americans are visibly overweight.  Anyway, even if only a third were, that would be a serious problem.  We eat poorly here.  To seriously argue differently would be idiotic.

There are no doubt fat people all over, but the statistics are still skewed. The BMI system is what they use to determine obesity, but it doesn't calculate body density into the equation. Some of the most athletic and fit people out there are statistically obese.

[shmokes]

What you are referring to are statistical outliers.  Few athletes actually fit that description.  That's just like hardcore lifters and NFL linebackers.

  They don't substantially degrade the statistic, as is obvious by just, like, looking around.  Anyway, the outliers are likely controlled for in the statistic, since it would be super easy to do so.  Either way, though, our country is fat, whether it's 60% like the stats say, or even half that.

[Dartful Dodger]

Some of the most athletic and fit people out there are statistically obese.

Athletic and fit are relative terms.

Chris Farley could be considered athletic and fit, but he was statistically and truly obese.

[Vigo]

What you are referring to are statistical outliers.  Few athletes actually fit that description.  That's just like hardcore lifters and NFL linebackers.

  They don't substantially degrade the statistic, as is obvious by just, like, looking around.  Anyway, the outliers are likely controlled for in the statistic, since it would be super easy to do so.  Either way, though, our country is fat, whether it's 60% like the stats say, or even half that.

Not really outliers in the least, just using athletes as an example. Take your stereotypical trucker build kind of guy. He may be a bulky and even somewhat overweight, but definitely not obese. Taking that to the BMI calculator and he will probably show up as phase 2 severe obesity, in the same category as the fat woman you see in the walmart fat people scooter.

And yeah, I'm not gonna deny that there is a fat problem in the country.

Athletic and fit are relative terms.

Chris Farley could be considered athletic and fit, but he was statistically and truly obese.

Not a relative term, but a term with no standardization. A more accurate way to put it is that there are people with 2-15% body fat, yet fall under the overweight and obese categories. When I was a in athletics, my body fat was measuring in between 15-18%, yet I was considered overweight according to my BMI.

[shateredsoul1979]

Uhm, most of the truckers I know are pretty overweight. I do not agree with the BMI as the only way to asses whether someone is overweight, but if you look at other countries 1st and 3rd world people eat much smaller portions than we do. Our regular size drink is their super large size.

[Vigo]

Haha, I was going for movie stereotypical bar room brawl kinda trucker. 

[shmokes]

Plus I'm not sure the CDC is even using BMI, or solely using BMI, or using BMI without correcting for its deficiencies.  Are you sure that you can attack the veracity of the claims at all based on BMI shortcomings?  I mean, either way we're just splitting hairs, since we both agree that there's a major problem with obesity in the U.S..  But still, I wouldn't be surprised if the CDC's statistics are more sophisticated than just BMI averages.

[Vigo]

The CDC set the BMI as the standard definition of Obesity. Their study would definitely be using their own definition. Here is the link to the CDC definition of obesity:

http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/defining.html

But yeah, we are agreeing on the issue, this is pretty much just mucking over the details. 

[ChadTower]

Gotta love a country where even the unemployed people are fat.

This is exactly why I will never buy the "people are often fat because they are poor" idea.  Sorry, when I was poor, fat wasn't happening.  No matter how many ramen packets or peanut butter sandwiches I ate it just didn't happen.  I never managed to get to 30% bodyfat eating 3oz of cube steak and 4 potatoes.  Real poor food, the "I have $2 to feed myself today" food, doesn't make you fat no matter how much of it you eat.

Fast food is expensive.  Frozen food is expensive.  A person who really is hurting for money cannot afford dense calorie heavy fat garbage foods.  That's the food they're saying the fat lower class is getting fat on, right?  Value meals, frozen pizzas, fast food?  That stuff was an occasional indulgence when I had no money at all.  

BTW, for the pullup bar I put a couple screw hooks into my basement rafters and ran a 3/4" pipe across them.  Cost was about $5. 

[Mikezilla]

Fast food isnt expensive, are you kidding? How many FF places can you think of that dont have dollar menus? A lot of times when people are really poor, they have to rely on what types of foods the food banks are giving out, and not all of it is healthy and nutritional. Im not trying to defend fat or poor people, Im just saying that sometimes when you dont have the same options as other people, its hard to eat healthy. I dont care what you say, eating healthy is not cheap.

Hell, I was fat, I knew what made me fat, not being active, and my large portions. Its different for people. A lot of times overweight people have issues that lead up to them being fat in the first place. I was just lazy.  But I decided that I didnt want to be fat anymore, it wasnt getting me anywhere, so I changed my life. Got more active, started lifting, cut the crap out of my diet, and bam. Great shape.

Still havent done p90x though. I got the DVD's but I still havent done it. A friend of mine calls one of the moves the "puke fountain". Kind of hesitant to start... 

[ChadTower]

I dont care what you say, eating healthy is not cheap.

Eating yummy enjoyable healthy foods is not cheap.  Eating easy to prepare healthy foods is not cheap.  There is nothing expensive about stuff like tuna, peanut butter, and low grade meats.  They have the same protein and fat content as better tasting or premade healthy foods.  The difference is that they don't taste as good or take more effort to prepare.  Taking one chicken and preparing several meals from it is cheap.  One person can eat for a whole week on one chicken and a bag of potatoes.  A family of four can eat for 2-3 days that way.  All of those options are a lot less expensive than the dollar menu at McDonald's and none of them will make you fat even if you tried.

pimballjim was dead on.  Most people here don't really know what truly poor means.

[Mikezilla]

I dont care what you say, eating healthy is not cheap.

Eating yummy enjoyable healthy foods is not cheap.  Eating easy to prepare healthy foods is not cheap.  There is nothing expensive about stuff like tuna, peanut butter, and low grade meats.  They have the same protein and fat content as better tasting or premade healthy foods.  The difference is that they don't taste as good or take more effort to prepare.  Taking one chicken and preparing several meals from it is cheap.  One person can eat for a whole week on one chicken and a bag of potatoes.  A family of four can eat for 2-3 days that way.  All of those options are a lot less expensive than the dollar menu at McDonald's and none of them will make you fat even if you tried.

pimballjim was dead on.  Most people here don't really know what truly poor means.

You have to keep in mind though, a lot of poor people have large families. I see what youre saying, and I understand, and youre right, i have never been truly THAT poor to where I would be hungry at night. My mom always made sure that didnt happen. Keep in mind the levels of poverty vary from state to state. Whats poor is in San Diego, might not be the same as the poor in San Antonio, or somewhere in the south.

I also wanted to clarify that I wasnt trying to sound like a jerk or anything when I said "I dont care what you say..." 

[ChadTower]

You have to keep in mind though, a lot of poor people have large families.

Having to feed more people doesn't make the obesity causing foods less expensive per person or per meal.  If you can afford to feed 6 people off the Dollar Menu for one meal you could have fed them better food all day for the same price.  It just would have taken more work and that's where the problem lies.  It's easier to feed them the cheap garbage but it sure isn't less expensive.  It's obvious there is a segment of the population that is poor and obese.  What I don't agree with is that one causes the other with no options available.  What it probably means is that our lower class has an income well above the lower class in other parts of the world.

I also wanted to clarify that I wasnt trying to sound like a jerk or anything when I said "I dont care what you say..." 

No worries.

[Donkbaca]

I think you are both sorta right. It is dirt cheap to eat dollar menu fast food items.  But CTower is right that you can eat healthy and cheap too, it just requires more work - canned vegetables are usually pretty cheap.  Its the healthy stuff that we want to eat - fresh produce, fresh, lean, quality meat - that is expensive.

I also think a factor is time.  I think a lot of poor people unfairly get characterized as lazy, but a lot of them work really hard for very little, and they don't have time/ access to health clubs or the time to devote a half hour a day to exercise.  Not to mention that most of them live in areas where it isn't safe/desirable to go and exercise outdoors for free.

[ChadTower]

Not to mention that most of them live in areas where it isn't safe/desirable to go and exercise outdoors for free.

That's way too tight a category.  There are a whole lot of people in that class who aren't in dense urban areas.

This is just my opinion but I blame television way more than I blame fast food or anything else.  Take TV away and how many hours a day does the average person get back?  They could use that time doing the things you just said they don't have time to do.  That goes across all weight classes and incomes.

[fallacy]

I have been doing P90x for the last few months. If you are planning on doing P90x I think it is also important to watch Fat Head Hulu - Fat Head - Watch the full movie now.

Remove most of the bad tans fats, carb intake and sugar from your diet.

[Mikezilla]

Not to mention that most of them live in areas where it isn't safe/desirable to go and exercise outdoors for free.

That's way too tight a category.  There are a whole lot of people in that class who aren't in dense urban areas.

This is just my opinion but I blame television way more than I blame fast food or anything else.  Take TV away and how many hours a day does the average person get back?  They could use that time doing the things you just said they don't have time to do.  That goes across all weight classes and incomes.

Thats a good point. I think its a combination of a lot of things, but I do agree, the TV does play a big part of the problem. Not just actual live TV, but since you can record stuff, and TV shows come out on DVD, video games, movies, etc... The television does play a big role with all of its bells and whistles.

[shateredsoul1979]

So i've lost 10lbs but can't seem to go any lower. Does anyone know a good way to determine muscle vs fat%? I've definitely lost weight, but I'm still at 190 (i'm 5'10"), I'm starting to wonder whether getting back to my 170ish is unrealistic. According to the doctor i'm supposed to be at 150! 170 is good for me

[Donkbaca]

don't buy that "muscle weighs more than fat" ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---.  Its what we tell fat chicks at the gym so they don't give up exercise and become even fatter chicks. Yeah, its technically true that muscle is more dense then fat, but if say you lost 15 pounds of fat and gained 5 pounds of muscle you would definitely notice it since muscle takes up about 20% less volume then fat, so if you substituted 5 pounds of fat for 5 pounds of muscle it would be a VERY noticeable difference.  Plus, if you are gaining muscle, you are going to change your non-exercise metabolic rate so you would lose fat more easily, so if you gained 5 lbs of muscle, you would start dropping weight pretty easily.  FInally its a LOT easier to lose a pound of fat than it is to gain a pound of muscle.  Unless you are working out like a mad man, you will probably gain at MOST 5-10 pounds of muscle in a YEAR.  While its very possible to lose a pound a week through moderate diet and exercise.    

What has more than likely happened is that most of the ten pounds is water weight, that your metabolism has changed due to your body clinging on whatever weight you have.  Just keep with it  When I got in great shape a couple of years ago and lost 40 pounds I experienced palteaus like that.  I would even gain weight some weeks.  Just keep at it, and keep eating right and exercising.  The best indications for me is that I feel better, and my clothes start fitting better.