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$9 'Super Easy' USB Controller hack for MAME

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Beretta:
ya like wachin pointed out.. it's kind a double edge sword.

on one hand you gotta remember to use the D-pad inputs for joy sticks or at least buttons that wont be pressed at the same time.

on the other hand it cuts the number of transmission wires needed since you effectively get 4 inputs with just 4 wires.. 2 for the axis and 2 for ground

just requires a little bit different wiring at the joystick.

if everything used a common ground you'ed need 5 wires, 4 inputs + 1 ground.
functionally you'ed gain nothing since you can't do up + down, or left + right physically on joy stick in the first place.

this also helped in my case since im gonna use a 25pin printer cable, 6 buttons each + start = 11 inputs for each player.. since i need 2 grounds but also 2 less input wires, it's a 11 wires * 2 = 22 leaving 3 pins left over, enough to get 5 & 12 volt lines to the control panel for lights and what not later on if needed.

if it used a common ground for all inputs then it would 12 (11inputs + 1 ground) wires each needed * 2 = 24.. so no room left for 5 or 12 volt feeds..

so this matrix setup on the D-pads can actually be beneficial in the right situation.

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Beretta on August 12, 2009, 07:16:00 am ---so this matrix setup on the D-pads can actually be beneficial in the right situation.

--- End quote ---

If you step back and take a look at all of this discussion about how to wire the board, it's not hard to come to the conclusion that a matrix setup is never beneficial to the user, if for no other reason than increased complexity.  Making sure the D-Pad is connected to the stick is pretty much a "no-brainer", as this is an OS thing that would be a requirement, regardless of the pad (or controller) being used.

Matrix setups are solely to the benefit of the hardware manufacturer.  They allow less capable devices to handle more inputs, but in cases where slow processors are used, they can introduce lag.  And lag really can be a concern on these types of inexpensive controllers.  While they can be a good choice for a small panel that is being made as cheaply as possible, there really is no comparing them with a fast controller with dedicated inputs like the GP-Wiz for serious gaming.

RandyT

Beretta:
well that maybe true, but testing the pads before hacking i seen no "lag" i know this can be a problem on hacked keyboards, but i honestly dont see this being a problem on these pads.

if im wrong i'll come back and eat crow.

obviously one without a matrixed dpad and a common ground for everything is preferable for no other reason then simplified wiring.

although in this particular case saving those 2 extra transmission wires lets me put 5 or 12v power on the cable for future use with led's or something, so it DOES have a benefit in this situation.

you are right about why they would use a matrix setup in the first place.. but lets look at this.. we know it's naively supporting 2 out of 4 directions, correct? you can't press more then 2 at a time, like i said the computer would'nt understand an axis being both + and - from center at the same time, thats illogical in the first place.


also the pads you have i assume that they still represent the dpad to the computer as X/Y axis. so what happens if you press left + right at the same time? or up and down?

im guessing it either 1. dont work, or simply registers right blocking left,
or 2. causes a fault that requires you to remove/reinsert the usb connector.

so you'ed still be forced to use it as the joystick, i can't see what you possibly gain other then a little simpler to wire, of course there is the possible buffer or que overflow but it think that possibility is rather remote even on these cheap matrixed pads.

now dont get me wrong the pads your selling are fine, im not digging at those because like i said it's still preferable i just dont imagine the "lag" will be a issue even on these cheap pads.

btw im curious how many button presses can the ones you're selling handle per second? i ask this because not having a matrix pad can still leads to that lag you was talking about if it has a small buffer, and no offense but those look like cheap chinese pads as well.. perhaps a better cheap chinese pad but still a cheap chinese pad.

and i do like the price point of your key wiz eco, but this setup is ultimately half the price.
and if you're not making a franken panel.


PS. i need some terminal blocks to finish up my controls for easier wiring, the ones you have can you give me the dimensions of them? i already mounted my pads on some wood so i only have so much space to fit the blocks on.

also any quantity discounts on your electric ice buttons? im gonna need like 40 of them for my 2nd project i plan on placing a order but im still tallying up everything i need cause im gonna be doing 2 or 3 projects, im doing them one at a time but i wanna try and get everything at once to save on shipping and so i'll have it on hand.

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Beretta on August 13, 2009, 04:14:51 pm ---well that maybe true, but testing the pads before hacking i seen no "lag" i know this can be a problem on hacked keyboards, but i honestly dont see this being a problem on these pads.

if im wrong i'll come back and eat crow.

--- End quote ---

"Lag" tends to be one of those things you don't notice until you notice it ;).  That may sound funny, but it's true.  It depends on the game you are playing, and so on.  When you tend to see it is when you have been using a cheap hack for a while, and then upgrade to a "real" interface.  I can absolutely tell the difference between the two when playing.  My first panel used hacks, btw.


--- Quote ---you are right about why they would use a matrix setup in the first place.. but lets look at this.. we know it's naively supporting 2 out of 4 directions, correct? you can't press more then 2 at a time, like i said the computer would'nt understand an axis being both + and - from center at the same time, thats illogical in the first place.

--- End quote ---

Correct, and it's a perfectly reasonable thing for the manufacturer to do.  But it adds processing steps to implement it, and believe me when I tell you that the processors used on these dirt cheap controllers are the "bottom of the barrel".  It can make a difference.  Whether it does to any one individual will depend on them and the types of games they like to play.


--- Quote ---also the pads you have i assume that they still represent the dpad to the computer as X/Y axis. so what happens if you press left + right at the same time? or up and down?

im guessing it either 1. dont work, or simply registers right blocking left,
or 2. causes a fault that requires you to remove/reinsert the usb connector.

so you'ed still be forced to use it as the joystick, i can't see what you possibly gain other then a little simpler to wire, of course there is the possible buffer or que overflow but it think that possibility is rather remote even on these cheap matrixed pads.

--- End quote ---

Heh.  None of what you are saying would be likely on any of these.  There is always some rule by which the programmer handles this situation.  On the pads from our store, it first goes back to center, and when pressed again, it goes that direction.  They would never "overflow" or cause a "USB fault".


--- Quote ---btw im curious how many button presses can the ones you're selling handle per second? i ask this because not having a matrix pad can still leads to that lag you was talking about if it has a small buffer, and no offense but those look like cheap chinese pads as well.. perhaps a better cheap chinese pad but still a cheap chinese pad.

--- End quote ---

They are.  But the fact that the processor has more direct inputs probably indicates a better processor.  At minimum, it is one which does not need extra routines to de-multiplex input, possibly using cycles not easily spared.

BTW, I don't really care where folks purchase their gamepads from.  It's not even worth talking about in a "business" sense, for the 10 a year we seem to sell ;).  But folks need to know that they are not all created equal, and that they do not perform nearly as well as real interface.  Sometimes the money is better spared elsewhere, but this will depend on individual needs and expectations.

RandyT

Beretta:
well dont worry i'll be sure to let everyone know how they work out, i already bought a 2nd pair im gonna hack later tonight or tomorrow for furture use, i've got some playstation pads already hacked but dont need the analog so thats why i bought these cheap usb ones.

i dont want some laggy controls and i mostly play side scrollers and fighters so im sure if anything the lag would be apparent on fighters.

but like i said if they suck i'll eat crow.

anyway what about below


--- Quote from: Beretta on August 13, 2009, 04:14:51 pm ---PS. i need some terminal blocks to finish up my controls for easier wiring, the ones you have can you give me the dimensions of them? i already mounted my pads on some wood so i only have so much space to fit the blocks on.

also any quantity discounts on your electric ice buttons? im gonna need like 40 of them for my 2nd project i plan on placing a order but im still tallying up everything i need cause im gonna be doing 2 or 3 projects, im doing them one at a time but i wanna try and get everything at once to save on shipping and so i'll have it on hand.

--- End quote ---

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