Arcade Collecting > Pinball
Whitewater shop job w/pics
Wade:
No, Whitewater bashing is not allowed. :) I personally think it's one of the best late model pins ever made. It's been on TreasureCove's survey Top 10 or Top 5 list as long as they've been doing it, and I agree 100% with that rating.
Chad, yeah it wasn't too bad to start out and I've seen a lot of beat-to-death Whitewaters, but it could have been better. It had your basical operator shop job, and dirt was in every nook and cranny. The bottom of the whirlpool was black, as were the light boards and the playfield edges around the hole. Bigfoot was freakin nasty. I think the techs who'd worked on the game over the years just used him as their grease rag to wipe their hands on. I really like my games to be clean.
I spent probably 20 hours 2 years ago fixing some things and doing the head decals and cleaning the head and boards. This round I spent 40 hours or more I'm sure.
I wasn't sure if I was going to sell it or keep it when I started shopping it, so I wanted to get it as nice as I could in case I kept it. The ramps had a lot of normal ball trails (some of which I couldn't polish out), some deep scratches from prior work on the game, and the entrances were busted up on some of them (the metal protectors hide most of that). One of them has several extra holes that aren't original. Most of the screw holes were too large so they didn't hold the metal side pieces well, so I cut extra clear plastic from a bad ramp in a small rectangle, drilled a new hole the correct size and put the plastic under the original hole, then tightened down. Worked great.
Compared to the reimport World Cup Soccer I sold a few years ago, this game was actually cleaner to start out, but the WCS cleaned up much better (those ramps came out like NEW) and had only one busted part. On this (domestic) game, so many parts had been been busted, either by the ball or a tech breaking/overtightening it. It also had a lot of electrical hacks, and the WCS had none (but needed new connectors in the head). Overall this game was in far worse condition, but is far more desirable and thus more expensive. Sometimes I really miss that WCS.
Wade
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: Wade on September 02, 2008, 03:44:20 pm ---No, Whitewater bashing is not allowed. :) I personally think it's one of the best late model pins ever made. It's been on TreasureCove's survey Top 10 or Top 5 list as long as they've been doing it, and I agree 100% with that rating.
--- End quote ---
TC's list has always been at least as much about ROI than it has quality of a given game. I like the game - I just don't see it being as pricey as it tends to be. That's just personal preference, though, since I like the preDMD games a whole lot more.
Wade:
Well, I agree that TC's list isn't the best list around, and the price has been climbing for that game for a while. I probably should have held on to it longer ;). But I really do think it's a super game. I've long considered it my pinball grail game, and I assure you I didn't sell it due to disappointment in the fun department.
Wade
Wade:
--- Quote from: pinballjim on September 02, 2008, 06:07:18 pm ---"The price is rising on whitewater" is one of the biggest myths perpetuated by RGP.
I was offered one in 2002 that was in decent shape and told "the price is going nowhere but UP!!! on this title."
Price? $1,500. You can get decent ones for that on E-bay regularly.
Everyone says they love it, but they never own it long. It's constantly changing hands. See also Bram Stoker's Dracula and The Shadow.
I can't stand the theme, music, artwork, or playfield layout. Other than that, it's alright. ;)
--- End quote ---
I disagree on all points, except for your personal lack of appreciation for the game, which you're entitled to. The rest is all just speculation or personal perspective, no real fact. Please start a fresh topic so we can discuss why we do or don't like certain games, and value trends. :)
Wade
Wade:
That just supports my argument that the price is going up. The vast majority of WH2O's on ebay are in poor condition and need hundreds of dollars in repairs, and yet the average is $1650. Nicer ones typically sell for $2000+. You can find many examples of this on RGP, too. It's extremely
hard to find a nice WH2O these days for $1500, even with pin prices slumping in general.
How nice was that $1500 one you passed on?
It's hard to be sure about market trends, especially since price depends so much on condition. It could be that WH2O prices are higher now due to the condition being nicer and the expensive parts it takes to make them nice. Entirely possible.
Figure the price of repro parts. Full set of ramps is $600+, boulders $300, plastics $100, decals $250. And that doesn't even include all the misc parts that add up to hundreds if you're shopping one out. So even if you buy a $1000 beater WH2O, you'd have $2500 into it to make it nice not even accounting for labor. This supports the price point. If a one is nice enough already that it is beautiful and needs absolutely nothing, then it will likely get $2000+ because just some of the parts are worth that much.
I don't agree with the "high turnover" thing because it seems everyone I know with one simply won't let it go. I always considered it my single must-have pin. But there's no reliable data either of us have to support our positions one way or the other. Your assertion that 83 sales is related to high turnover of the game is purely an assumption. It could just as easily mean that a lot of people like the game, or it's a hell of a game for its price range.
Regardless, turnover could mean anything, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how good the game is. Part of the reason I let mine go is because it was too valuable and parts were too expensive for my blood. I needed to downscale my collection cost-wise, and raise some cash for other things. I'd be willing to bet the new owner will keep it long term, and he has gone through a lot of pins!
Bottom line... my firm position is still that it's one of the best pins ever made. Awesome flow and shots, great layout, family friendly, great 5-way combo, extremely challenging rules that keep even the best players coming back for more. Just a super all-around game. All that said, it's all taste, so don't anyone seek one out just based on my love for the game. :)
TTYL,
Wade
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