Gyruss and Time Pilot, the way they were meant to be played

[leapinlew]

Big thanks to bratwurst who shared his copy of spinmame. I'm pretty sure this is the same copy I was using. I tested and it's working as expected.

Send me a PM if you want a copy of it.

[Derken73]

it works brilliantly
got to stage 9 on my first try 

many many thanks!

[negative1]

thanks to lew for getting to try this out.

i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.

however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.

so for beginners, this is a good way to train.

later
-1

[leapinlew]

thanks to lew for getting to try this out.

i'm already an expert at both games, and can flip both of them with the normal controls.

however, playing with an analog dial gives a lot more precision of course, and makes it much
easier to play.

so for beginners, this is a good way to train.

later
-1

For me, it makes the games much more playable, but since the game is designed to work with a joystick (for some reason), the game was designed to be not as difficult as they would have made it if you had analog controls. To me those games make more sense with a spinner.

It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

[opt2not]

It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

[leapinlew]

It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

Oh yeah! Goes without saying.

Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, it’s like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because it’s meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...

[Mr. Peabody]

Gyruss and Time Pilot controllers seem weird when you think laterally rather than circularly. A little re-programming and off to the races. Or at least in Gyruss you could stay in the lower third of the screen....

[opt2not]

It takes out some of the challenge, but that's because it's using bad controls.

Oh yeah! Goes without saying.

Plenty of folks love the controls and gameplay as it is. With a spinner, it’s like a game genie hack. Since the game was programmed to be used with a joystick the game is much easier. If you could play tempest with a joystick, it would probably be super difficult because it’s meant to be played with a spinner. Different strokes...

Except it’s not different strokes. It’s just plain wrong.
The original designer didn’t intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. It’s apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You don’t get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-o’clock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-o’clock. If you are truly familiar with the game you’d know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.

Let’s not construe this more than it is. It’s a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as “it’s better with spinner” is just ridiculous. It’s like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldn’t have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
 

[negative1]

i wonder if anyone got good at the crystal castles joystick version, which came after
the original trackball.

i tried the emulated version, and did ok, but it made it harder.

marble madness had a trackball, and the plan was for marble madness 2 to use joysticks.
but that didn't pan out.

some games feel more natural with certain controllers, others, the limitations of them,
can complement the game.

later
-1

[leapinlew]

Except it’s not different strokes. It’s just plain wrong.
The original designer didn’t intend to use a spinner for those games. This is especially true with Gyruss. It’s apparent to how positioning and spawn patterns cater to an 8-way joystick, and memorizing the spawn locations with the ability to quickly move your ship to a specific location is a major part of the game. You don’t get specific location movement with a spinner. In Gyruss Down-right will always move your ship to the 4-o’clock position. Up, will always move your ship to 12-o’clock. If you are truly familiar with the game you’d know that being able to get to these locations quickly for enemy spawns is 80% of the gameplay.

Let’s not construe this more than it is. It’s a neat hack to mess with the game. But to try to spin this as “it’s better with spinner” is just ridiculous. It’s like saying, Leonardo Da Vinci shouldn’t have painted the Mona Lisa with a sfumato technique, layered painting is better. Or Picasso should have done Impressionism rather than cubism because people can digest it easier.
 

I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.

Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.

We had a version of Track'n'field with trackballs at our local bowling alley. That was a total blast and I really pumped some quarters into it. To me, that's a good example where controls were switched and it made a different, and some would say, better experience.

[negative1]

I did say it was a hack because, well, it clearly is and it's also pretty obvious that "it's better with a spinner" is my opinion.

Your points about Gyruss are well placed. You zeroed in on the one game where game play was designed well for a joystick. I don't like the game all that much, but I did enjoy it with the spinner. That's why I prefer it with a spinner - I just liked it and would actually play it. The more random games, such as Time Pilot, Star Castle, Asteroids - those work much better out of the box with a spinner than Gyruss.

time pilot was designed by the same guy that did gyruss.

i don't feel like anythings missing out when playing that game with a joystick.

same with time pilot 84 which also used a joystick. but that was a much harder game.

later
-1

[Mr. Peabody]

Set the spinner sensitivity to match the rate of the movement in the original.

Time Pilot '84 has peculiar elements that constrain flight patterns, especially in later levels. However, the game is not in Spinmame.

Marble Madness is fine with a trackball, and finer with a joystick. Fast run areas are easier with a stick with sensitivity of analog directions set to 100.

[MoonPatrol76]

Sorry to dig up this ancient post   
But since I am just now in the situation of building a spinner MAME cab I'd linke to ask if someone could share his "spinner mame version" with me for playing Gyruss and Time Pilot with it ? Would be highly appreciated.
Thank you.

[leapinlew]

Sorry to dig up this ancient post   
But since I am just now in the situation of building a spinner MAME cab I'd linke to ask if someone could share his "spinner mame version" with me for playing Gyruss and Time Pilot with it ? Would be highly appreciated.
Thank you.

PM Sent!

[haynor666]

Is there new source for recent mame available ? I would like to integrate this diff into groovymame.

[leapinlew]

Nope!

I run a couple different versions of mame to play the different games that work differently on different versions of Mame.

[MSN_GFT]

Hi there! Sorry for getting to the party late, but I would love to get a copy of this modified spinmame you guys have compiled here. I don't have the knowhow to do it myself, and I just finished modified a Tempest Legacy cab from A1up, and wanted to pack it full of any and every spinner/trackball game I can find. I only to find out recently that there aren't actually that many 

Time Pilot is a fantastic game, and watching it in action using a spinner is a thing of beauty.

[rmosse]

Big thanks to bratwurst who shared his copy of spinmame. I'm pretty sure this is the same copy I was using. I tested and it's working as expected.

Send me a PM if you want a copy of it.

can someone send me a copy of spinmame already compiled please?

I tried to send a PM but the forum doesnt allow me to send private messages.

It is my dream to play gyruss with a spinner.

[PL1]

I tried to send a PM but the forum doesnt allow me to send private messages.

Now that your first post has been approved, your PM system is active.   


Scott

[leapinlew]

It is my dream to play gyruss with a spinner.

We need more people like you around! I sent you the download link via instant messenger.

[Loafmeister]

have not been around this forum for a while and a google search brought me back here.

So what brought me here?  Something similar but for a different game.  I have a retropie system to play retro games (along with mame on the PC like most civilized fans eheh).  One game that drives me nuts and is outright unplayable is Front line because of its use of a digital rotary instead of a standard spinner.  Would there be a way to modify its control so that we could play the game and remap the arm movement to an analog spinner, which on a control pad could be the L or R buttons or Left Trigger / Right trigger?   Games like Tron are superbly playable by mapping them to a controller via the L/R buttons.  nothing beats a spinner but at least in letting us map that control to those two buttons, it's playable.  Front line without, is not playable at all on a control pad

anyway just a thought

[PL1]

One game that drives me nuts and is outright unplayable is Front line because of its use of a digital rotary instead of a standard spinner.  Would there be a way to modify its control so that we could play the game and remap the arm movement to an analog spinner, which on a control pad could be the L or R buttons or Left Trigger / Right trigger?   Games like Tron are superbly playable by mapping them to a controller via the L/R buttons.  nothing beats a spinner but at least in letting us map that control to those two buttons, it's playable.  Front line without, is not playable at all on a control pad

Front Line is one of six games that use a "Taito Aim-n-Fire" style controller:
- Front Line
- The Tin Star
- Wild Western
- Sheriff (Nintendo)
- Bandido (Exidy -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)
- Western Gun Part II (Taito -- licensed re-release of Sheriff)

 

The "Aim-n-Fire" acts like a top-fire 8-way joystick where a cardinal direction (U/D/L/R) or diagonal is always pressed.   It is used to . . . aim and fire.   
- On a twin-stick cab (think Robotron), you can map the right stick to both the aim inputs and the fire input.
- You should be able to do the same with a gamepad that has twin thumbsticks.   

Another option is the rotary joystick from GRS.  They are available as a stick you can install on your cab or as a fightstick.

With the right settings in MAME, the appropriate mode selected, and the correct handle installed, this stick works like these specialized controllers:
- Mechanical rotary joystick
- Optical rotary joystick
- Taito Aim-n-Fire
- Atari Twist-to-Turn joystick (Xybots)
- Push/Pull spinner

Front Line gameplay shown from 49:20 - 56:23.




Scott

[Loafmeister]

Thanks for the detailed response.  I tried mapping the second stick a la robotron but it doesn't seem to work for me at all. Perhaps it's because of the mame version used on the raspberry pi.  I'll have to double check on my windows pc to see if I can map it to the second stick .

The video is a nice glimpse of how it plays using the proper controls. Hopefully I can find a way for it to play using a control pad. I still think having a spinmame "hack" would serve better but let's see if I can figure out a way to map as you suggest.

[PL1]

I tried mapping the second stick a la robotron but it doesn't seem to work for me at all. Perhaps it's because of the mame version used on the raspberry pi.  I'll have to double check on my windows pc to see if I can map it to the second stick .

The problem could be that the gamepad's thumbsticks are in analog mode instead of digital mode.
- When my knockoff USB PlayStation2 controller is in digital mode, the left thumbstick shows up as four D-pad directions and the right thumbstick shows up as four button presses.


Scott

[Loafmeister]

I see; I'm not certain how the retropie setup can see the sticks as digital.  I'll have to read on it.  The gamepad I'm using is a nintendo switch pro controller, possibly n0t possible with it