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Non-Software Coin Limiter.. Any ideas?
Mr Kray:
Hi Everyone,
To condense my post:
I would like to limit the number of credits per game.. I'd like to do this electronically rather than via software.
Read on for more details and the full reason why...
When my cabinet was being 'tested' by friends I found that they just pumped in hundreds of credits to get through games like Final Fight and then moved onto the next game, this was extremely annoying for me as I could see the fun wearing off very quickly as once you know the ending it's not as fun to play again. Unlike Contra (if memory serves me correctly) that is not only quite a difficult game but limits the continues you get, I've never gotten bored of this game, but I'm also yet to get very far. :D
I know that there is a software solution posted that limits the number of credits per boot but I would like to limit the number of credits per loaded game.
Someone in the another thread mentioned using the dip switches to change the game settings, but can this be done for all games or just those that originally had the dipswitches on them? And if so can it be done without having to go in and modify each game one at a time.
I would also not like to be limited to a particular FE just because it has the ability to limit in game credits but if that is the easiest option I may go for it.
Coin mech and tokens is not really feasible as I can't afford tokens, I don't want to accept cash and I don't want to have to keep handing out more tokens of opening up the cabinet to replenish spent supplies during parties or whatever.
I was thinking that a circuit could be made that once the credit button has been hit a certain number of times (5 or 6 say) the it will be disable until the circuit detects that the 'quit game' keypress has been triggered. That way the credits are limited and the machine does not need to go through a full reboot to allow more credits, if they want to keep playing the same game they just reload it.
Any thoughts, suggestions or comments welcome! Especially if you know a bit more than I about electronics!
Thanks,
Gav (Mr Kray)
protokatie:
When playing around with one of those 300-in-1 electronic kits there was a circuit for a step counter, that would be the only real "circuit friendly" way to do it cheaply. Another method would be to use a series of low power relays, hitting the coin button would trigger a relay that closed a circuit for the next relay (but also cut itself out of the loop). Once all relays had been tripped, the coin button would have nothing but open circuit and therefor wouldnt do anything. (Its late, lemme see if I can do a draw up in the next few days as to how this would work). You would also have to wire your quit button up so that it clicked the relays back to the starting position.
Honestly, Id say try to find another way, unless you are handy in electronics, it is too much bother.
SavannahLion:
Build a modified counting circuit?
Off the top of my head. You could use a 4017 along with a couple of transistors (or an IC with a couple of NOTs) and some debounce to build a hardware based counter. A 4017 gives you a total of 10 credits. You could daisy chain the circuit to add more credits as you see fit. The biggest problem with a hardware solution like that though is you're basically restricted to whatever design you choose. What if you decide you want to up the coin counter to accept 15 credits? You would have to rebuild the entire circuit. You could alleviate it somewhat by adding jumpers or DIP switches to give you a selectable range of 0 credits to N. :dunno
I have to say though, a far more powerful and flexible solution would still be software based. A small program hooking into keyboard input. Counts N key presses on a particular key then blocks future key presses past N until a reset key is pressed.
Mr Kray:
--- Quote from: protokatie on April 30, 2008, 12:53:57 am ---Another method would be to use a series of low power relays, hitting the coin button would trigger a relay that closed a circuit for the next relay (but also cut itself out of the loop). Once all relays had been tripped, the coin button would have nothing but open circuit and therefor wouldnt do anything.
--- End quote ---
Actually this was the method I thought of, having a few relays set up shutting off after each press and then being reset, but I hadn't put much thought into it to come up with an actual schematic or anything... I know basic electronics so I could make a basic circuit although my soldering skills need a bit of work. :P
--- Quote from: SavannahLion on April 30, 2008, 03:35:22 am ---Build a modified counting circuit?
Off the top of my head. You could use a 4017 along with a couple of transistors (or an IC with a couple of NOTs) and some debounce to build a hardware based counter. A 4017 gives you a total of 10 credits. You could daisy chain the circuit to add more credits as you see fit. The biggest problem with a hardware solution like that though is you're basically restricted to whatever design you choose. What if you decide you want to up the coin counter to accept 15 credits? You would have to rebuild the entire circuit. You could alleviate it somewhat by adding jumpers or DIP switches to give you a selectable range of 0 credits to N. :dunno
--- End quote ---
That sounds okay, if I could put in the dip switches, the benefit of having it electronic is that regardless of whether your using MAME or just have it hooked up to a coin mech you could always limit the credits (I assume, I don't know much about coin mechs).
I'm not familiar with the 4017 but it gives me somewhere to start researching possibilities.
--- Quote ---I have to say though, a far more powerful and flexible solution would still be software based. A small program hooking into keyboard input. Counts N key presses on a particular key then blocks future key presses past N until a reset key is pressed.
--- End quote ---
I'm better at electronics that I am with programming, used to know some back in the day but wouldn't have a clue where to start now, that's why I favoured the electronics route, I thought someone might already know a circuit that could be modified or I figured there would be a simple way to rig something up.
If anyone knows how to program something to do this that'd be great but I'm not the one to do it. :dunno
Maybe Endtwist's coin limiter could be modified to reset the counter on a key press rather than a reboot?
Anyway, thanks for the help, if anyone else out there has a solution please speak up, otherwise I'll start a researchin'. :)
Neverending Project:
Here's a crazy solution that just may actually work. I'm still trying to figure it out in my head as I write this so bear with me, but what about using a relay and a macro? Here's how I would picture it: The Insert Coin button would be programmed on your cab in insert the maximum number of coins you want, call it 5. It would also be wired to turn a relay Off. So as soon as the Insert Coin button is pressed 5 coins are sent to the game, and then it disables itself by turning the relay off. Turning the relay back on would be via a hidden reset button. If you have an LED controller you could use an unused LED control line to turn the relay on/off when new games are launched - just treat it as an LED.
Like I said, I am not sure I have thought it all the way through, but maybe the idea is inspiring?
Should I just go have some more coffee?
[Edit]
So I was thinking about this some more (after my second cup of coffee).... you could implement a counter using either a 4017 IC as mentioned above, or build a 3 or 4-bit binary counter using relays (also mentioned above), but both solutions will need a reset switch since they are locked out once the maximum count is reached. Since you want a solution that is non-software and the software is what switches the game, you would have to wire the reset into the game quit button (and this would have to be a dedicated button) so whenever the game is quit the counter would get reset.
But if it's wired to the game quit button, what happens if you want to play more than the predetermined counter allows? Thusly, it is hereforeto my conclusion that you will either need to wire a hidden reset button (or button combination), or use a hardware/software combo for your solution.
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