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Interesting Craigslist find.
Justin Z:
I accept your argument only on the basis that the first mover did not need to be a conscious being.
I call this first mover "Big Bang." It's the best way I feel we can explain it with our current level of knowledge.
And yes, it's fun to imagine larger things than ourselves, a la the ants. But you are talking about things we know to exist, and even the ants can perceive we humans, so to use your analogy in the way you did doesn't really make sense.
ChadTower:
--- Quote from: Justin Z on March 14, 2008, 03:53:17 pm ---I call this first mover "Big Bang." It's the best way I feel we can explain it with our current level of knowledge.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I have a picture.
MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: Justin Z on March 14, 2008, 03:53:17 pm ---I accept your argument only on the basis that the first mover did not need to be a conscious being.
--- End quote ---
Well if you can imagine something that moved entirely of its own volition, as well as something whose movement resulted in an orderly universe, as being something other than an intelligent being; then that's fine—inexplicable, but fine.
Justin Z:
It's not inexplicable at all.
If there's no need for God to have been "created" by something else, there's no need for the universe to have been "created" by something else. It's really quite simple.
MaximRecoil:
--- Quote from: Justin Z on March 14, 2008, 04:06:01 pm ---It's not inexplicable at all.
If there's no need for God to have been "created" by something else, there's no need for the universe to have been "created" by something else. It's really quite simple.
--- End quote ---
Except that God, by definition, exists outside of the universe. A creator is obviously separate from, and predates, the creation. You can only ever blindly speculate about the nature of God because you don't even know of one single rule governing his existence. On the other hand, we know plenty of rules which govern the universe.
Whether or not something created the "God" of this universe is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is the logical existence of a "first mover" relative to our observable universe. Where the "first mover" came from doesn't matter because that predates our universe and would fall into a category for which we have no common frame of reference, or even a single fact about.
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