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Reconditioning Nintendo 4-Way Joystick or Alternative

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Bender:

--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 02:27:46 am ---
I'm in Dexter, about 45 minutes' drive from Bangor. I used to go to the arcade in the Bangor Mall (Spaceport) a lot when I was a teenager.

Are you from Maine?

--- End quote ---

Yeah, Down here in York, most people up your way call it New Hampshire  :)

MaximRecoil:

--- Quote from: Bender on February 21, 2008, 02:36:39 am ---
--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 02:27:46 am ---
I'm in Dexter, about 45 minutes' drive from Bangor. I used to go to the arcade in the Bangor Mall (Spaceport) a lot when I was a teenager.

Are you from Maine?

--- End quote ---

Yeah, Down here in York, most people up your way call it New Hampshire  :)

--- End quote ---

Okay, I remember you said that in another thread now that you mention it. Yeah, you are damn near a flatlander—but on the other hand, you must be pretty close to Funspot.

What's in Bangor that you couldn't find in Portland?

DonkeyKong:

--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 01:51:41 am ---It wouldn't hurt to use some grease at that point between the top of the plate and the bottom of the bearing cup,

--- End quote ---

I respectfully disagree.  You've fully sold me on the fact that grease would gum things up. And grease right there would give me the same sticky feeling I had.  When you are at center, you have to overcome the force of the spring pushing two flat pieces of metal together.  I had this all lubed up with silicone spray and it's great, it's just not effortless.  It doesn't stick, just not smooth.  This is one of those hard to explain things.  I think it's the force of the spring and metal on metal... it's a lot at center, and the more you move the stick to the side to less the force to move is, but the more it wants to return back to center.  Ok, now I'm confusing myself!!  LOL.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 01:51:41 am ---and polishing/deburring both the bottom edge of the cup and the plate would help too if you really want to fine tune it, because that is the main point of friction in the system (assuming everything is clean).

--- End quote ---

Yeah, if you can imagine maybe putting a slight quarter round on the outside edge of that bearing cup, the return plate wouldn't have to break over a sharp edge.  The joystick should return to center the same way due to the return plate mounting smoothly over the joystick shaft and not being able to wobble side to side like a washer might.

So I was thinking about this more... it's not like I'm going to be able to get some fine sand paper in there due to the other piece of metal that holds the micro switches.  I think I have this little sanding stick thing that might work though.  A dremel would also be good, but I really want to break that edge off too, not just polish it.  Maybe some low speed CAREFUL work with the dremel.


--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 01:51:41 am ---Make sure it still has its 4-way restrictor like it is supposed to.

--- End quote ---

Oh yeah, it's there.  This stick was original in every respect.  The glyptal on all of the screws and nuts had never been broken loose.  This thing just had either 25 year old grease in it, or someone keep greasing it over time.


--- Quote from: Bender on February 21, 2008, 02:13:26 am ---Bring it on... DonkeyKong!!! ;)  actually I haven been able to get past the high 80,000's the last few days ???

--- End quote ---

Uht oh, I think that means your high score was a fluke!  It actually starts to get really crazy once you reach 80-100k, and if you are out of practice even 55k might seem like a challenge.  I'm sure you will modify your joystick some more and get back up there again ;-)

I'll hopefully get some practice this weekend.


--- Quote from: Bender on February 21, 2008, 02:13:26 am ---Seriously though you guys just gave me an Idea. If we can find A nylon washer that will fit between the bearing cup and  and the return plate it would avoid the metal on metal problem as well as adding some more resistance to the spring (two Birds with one barrel)
I'll try it in the next couple of days and let you know how it works out

--- End quote ---

That does sound like it would work well.  I wonder if the sharp (maybe not so sharp after 25 years of play) edge of the bearing cup would shave that nylon washer down?

I bet you will get to it before I end up trying to buff the bearing cup... I'd definitely be interested in knowing how it works out.

MaximRecoil:

--- Quote from: DonkeyKong on February 21, 2008, 09:32:35 am ---
--- Quote from: MaximRecoil on February 21, 2008, 01:51:41 am ---It wouldn't hurt to use some grease at that point between the top of the plate and the bottom of the bearing cup,

--- End quote ---

I respectfully disagree.  You've fully sold me on the fact that grease would gum things up. And grease right there would give me the same sticky feeling I had. 
--- End quote ---

Yes, but before, I was talking about greasing the bearing itself inside the cup. I don't think a light film of grease on top of that plate would gum anything up, but either way...

I'm actually interested in trying the nylon washer thing at that point.


--- Quote ---When you are at center, you have to overcome the force of the spring pushing two flat pieces of metal together.  I had this all lubed up with silicone spray and it's great, it's just not effortless.  It doesn't stick, just not smooth.  This is one of those hard to explain things.  I think it's the force of the spring and metal on metal... it's a lot at center, and the more you move the stick to the side to less the force to move is, but the more it wants to return back to center.  Ok, now I'm confusing myself!!  LOL.
--- End quote ---

I know exactly what you are talking about. Additionally, over time, that plate get grooves worn in it, which can create slightly more resistance to that initial movement from center to one of the 4 directions. Having a new plate made by a machinist would be nice (or grinding it down flat again like they do with grooved brake rotors), but like I said, I think the nylon washer there might work out well too.


--- Quote ---Yeah, if you can imagine maybe putting a slight quarter round on the outside edge of that bearing cup, the return plate wouldn't have to break over a sharp edge.  The joystick should return to center the same way due to the return plate mounting smoothly over the joystick shaft and not being able to wobble side to side like a washer might.
--- End quote ---

Yeah, I think that would work great if you wanted to put forth the effort to do it. I've thought of doing that too but it would be a lot of work if you want to get it really smooth. Again, I'm going to try a nylon washer. I won't be out anything (aside from a few cents) if I don't like it. And the thing about nylon is, as it wears and grooves to the shape of the metal it is riding against, the friction actually decreases (until it wears out completely anyway). If you look at the innards of an SNK LS-30 rotary joystick (Ikari Warriors) you will see a series of nylon and metal mating surfaces, and with those joysticks, a used one is smoother than an NOS one. The problem is, some of the nylon parts are in a proprietary shape (i.e., not just a flat washer) so once they wear out completely, your stick is pretty much done for.

WunderCade:
Why not try using a lot of those little rubber rings they use on braces for your teeth. You could add them to the bottom of the stick just above the e-ring until you build up a mound big enough to snug up the joystick to "center"? Or you can use any small rubber band-type thingys.

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