Looks like the Wii has been fully cracked

[shmokes]

http://nintendo-scene.com/812

Wii homebrew could be cool!

[slycrel]

Nice.

Too bad the wii doesn't have much built in space.  I suppose people could get some decent space with SD cards though.

[SNAAKE]

it will never be anything like the original xbox but good news for the wii owners.

[ChadTower]

it will never be anything like the original xbox but good news for the wii owners.

The potential for coolness with the Wiimotes could make it far better than the original Xbox for gaming homebrew.  Way, way better.

Looks like I got in just in time.

[SNAAKE]

yeah different kind of coolness maybe...

but it wont have a decent media center for sure..nothing like XBMC(no hard drive...)

[ChadTower]

XBMC leverages the upconverting capabilities of the Xbox itself... that's why it is such a great media center.  Without that it's not a ton better than any random x86 PC.  Xbox will definitely be a better streamer... but homebrew other than that isn't so good.  Wii could rule in that regard.

[SavannahLion]

 

[Howard_Casto]

Actually the wii has higher specs than the xbox and let us not forget that it has usb ports, so the lack of a harddrive isn't a problem.  If anything, it's smaller form-factor should make it better than the xbox.

[shmokes]

The Wii lacks 5.1 surround.  It lacks an IR port for a remote control.  Officially it lacks high def resolutions, but I don't know if that's some kind of hard coded thing, since the original Xbox could output 1080i and, as Howard said, the Wii is more powerful than the Xbox . . . but if it is true, then the Wii also can't display as good a picture as the original Xbox as far as movies and such are concerned.  Forget media center.  I don't care what the specs are compared to the Xbox; Wii would make a ---smurfy--- media center.  Xbox made a great one because the sum of its parts added up to a phenomenal media center.  Wii may be more powerful than Xbox, but it's missing a bunch of crucial things.  There's good reason to be excited about the Wii being cracked.  Great reasons to be excited.  Media center is not among them.

[Howard_Casto]

The Wii lacks 5.1 surround.  It lacks an IR port for a remote control.  Officially it lacks high def resolutions, but I don't know if that's some kind of hard coded thing, since the original Xbox could output 1080i and, as Howard said, the Wii is more powerful than the Xbox . . . but if it is true, then the Wii also can't display as good a picture as the original Xbox as far as movies and such are concerned. 

The xbox lacks 5.1 as well, that was done *mostly* in software.  Now it supported digital out if that's what you mean, but the difference between digital out and analog out is quite neglegable. Even giving you that one, all the other specs on the wii are superior. The xbox also lacked a ir port, that was done with a hardware add-on.  A hardware addon, I might add, that couldn't turn on the frikkin box!  And I suppose I'm going to have to state the obvious here, but the wii controller IS a remote!  The wii is capable of 1080i, probably 1080p, it was mentioned in a interview with a dev a few months back (when questions were asked regarding the wii doing some 720p titles like the xbox did).  And that last bit didn't you said didn't make any sense.  You admit that the wii has better specs and then you go on to say the picture quality still will be worse.  The wii also has built in wireless, meaning you don't have to run cables all over the house.

You made one good point, it is a matter of the sum of it's parts.  The xbox sums up to a 700mhz pc  with 64 mb of ram the size of a pc that you can't turn on from the couch without hacking, while the wii sums up to 730mhz with around 100 mb of ram (around 80 general purpose and around 30 dedicated video) pc with various co-processors the size of a portable dvd drive that you can turn on.  So the sum of it's parts comparison goes to the wii, you are just obsessing over two things that you want personally that the xbox might do better at (I say might because with all the extra hp, things like 5.1 could be done in full software mode, right now we don't know, but considering what we do know, it should.)  The only true advantage I'm seeing is the built in harddrive on the xbox.  For people who don't stream this would be an issue of course, but the wii does have rudimentary usb support, and nyko is working on some sort of hdd add-on so it might not be an issue (other than cost, which without question, the junky 10 year old xbox has anything beat).

Granted schmokes, YOU might not want to use it as a media center, but don't lump us all into the same boat as you.  You say the wii is missing a bunch of crucial things, but they are really optional things that are simply crucial to YOU.  If I can get 50% of my shelf space back for a comparable media center, especially if I'm still using said hardware for actual gaming, then I'll ditch my old xbox in a second.

[versapak]

The xbox lacks 5.1 as well, that was done *mostly* in software.  Now it supported digital out if that's what you mean, but the difference between digital out and analog out is quite neglegable.

Huh?


LOL 



Yes, the Xbox had 5.1. When talking about gaming it had hardware (not software) encoded 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound for most of its library.


Being that we are talking primarily media center in this conversation though...

Yeah, the Xbox can pass a digital signal, and to say that the difference between digital surround and matrixed analog is negligible is completely ridiculous. The only way I figure you could even believe that is that you are deaf.

[ChadTower]

The major advantage the Xbox has is that it is pretty much a 700mhz windows box once cracked.  It's not all that hard for a windows developer  to write code that runs on the Xbox.  It became a great Media Center because the coder base for it was already out there and didn't involve a huge learning curve.  Skilled guys could rotate in and out working on the apps.  You're not going to be able to say the same about the Wii, which is going to make the dev curve a hell of a lot longer with a much smaller coder base.

[shmokes]

Of course 5.1 matters, Howard.  The Xbox was meant from the very beginning to be a DVD player, hence the IR port and remote addon.  And, I hate to point out the obvious, but the Wii controller IS NOT a remote.  It is shaped like a remote, which is not the same thing.  It lacks a play button, a pause button, skip buttons, fwd/rwd buttons, etc. 

If you mean that we're going to get a new A/V cable with a separate cable for each discreet channel, you're nuts.  If you think that the difference between Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro Logic II is negligible, you're nuts.  Anyway do you really think that Nintendo is going to release an IR dongle and a new AV/cable to support a hacker-made media center that requires a modified Wii to run?

And what I was saying about the picture quality is that I didn't know if the Wii graphics hardware lacked support for higher resolutions, i.e., was incapable of them, or was just pretty weak generally so nobody used the higher resolutions.

Also, what Chad said.  I hadn't even thought of that, but that's huge.

[ChadTower]

Of course, if you're willing to settle for 480p and PLII, the Wii is positioned pretty well to be a strong media center eventually.  I tend to use my Xbox to stream downloaded Divx movies so even though it can do 720p well and 5.1 well, I never use them.  The upscaling capability is about as far as I go.

[shmokes]

I disagree, frankly.  XBMC exists because the Xbox makes such an excellent media center.  That same kind of effort is not going to be duplicated for a system that cannot even compete with what has already been done on the Xbox.  I have no doubt that someone will enable the DVD player soon, and eventually we might even get some media streaming capabilities (though probably never as comprehensive as Xbox's).  But there's not going to be an enormous community contributing to a media center project for the Wii.  It makes no sense.

Also, consider that while the Wii is aimed at the casual gamers, only the real hardcores are going to mod a Wii, and the real hardcores almost certainly own another system.  If that system is an Xbox 360, PS3 or even an original Xbox, they've already got a media center far more capable than anything the Wii can possibly do.  And the 360 and PS3 can stream right out of the box (including DivX once you have all your updates) without any warranty-voiding shenanigans.

Wii homebrew, like all Wii software, is going to revolve around what can be done with the innovative controller.  The controller is the whole point of Wii.  No reason to think homebrew is going to be any different.

[versapak]

I disagree, frankly.  XBMC exists because the Xbox makes such an excellent media center.  That same kind of effort is not going to be duplicated for a system that cannot even compete with what has already been done on the Xbox.  I have no doubt that someone will enable the DVD player soon, and eventually we might even get some media streaming capabilities (though probably never as comprehensive as Xbox's).  But there's not going to be an enormous community contributing to a media center project for the Wii.  It makes no sense.

Also, consider that while the Wii is aimed at the casual gamers, only the real hardcores are going to mod a Wii, and the real hardcores almost certainly own another system.  If that system is an Xbox 360, PS3 or even an original Xbox, they've already got a media center far more capable than anything the Wii can possibly do.  And the 360 and PS3 can stream right out of the box (including DivX once you have all your updates) without any warranty-voiding shenanigans.

Wii homebrew, like all Wii software, is going to revolve around what can be done with the innovative controller.  The controller is the whole point of Wii.  No reason to think homebrew is going to be any different.

Yep


Pretty much all that needs be said.

[ChadTower]

He disagrees with how I use XBMC?  What is he, MaximRecoil?  There are plenty of people that use XBMC without an elaborate home theater setup for it.  Hell I know a couple of people that have 3-4 modded Xboxes in their houses.  Not everyone has every modded Xbox as the heart of a home theater.  I wouldn't even want it for that given how badly it sucks as a DVD player.

[shmokes]

I don't disagree with how you use XBMC; I disagree with your statement that the Wii is positioned pretty well to be a strong media center eventually.  It's not.

[MajorLag]

the Wii controller IS NOT a remote.  It is shaped like a remote, which is not the same thing.

The controller is versatile enough that I could easily see it being used as a remote. For instance: play/pause = A, skip forward = +, skip backward = -, Fast Forward = Hold B + tilt right, Rewind = Hold B + tilt left, etc.

[versapak]

the Wii controller IS NOT a remote.  It is shaped like a remote, which is not the same thing.

The controller is versatile enough that I could easily see it being used as a remote. For instance: play/pause = A, skip forward = +, skip backward = -, Fast Forward = Hold B + tilt right, Rewind = Hold B + tilt left, etc.

Yeah, just like any controller for any game console, but that is hardly on par with remotes for most media devices.

[MajorLag]

The only thing that really makes remotes special is that they're wireless, unless you count the number pad, which I'll agree the Wiimote would have a hard time simulating. And only the latest generation of controllers feature wireless by default.

Personally, I don't see what the difference is (other than the aforementioned number pad). Is it that the buttons are clearly labeled? That matters a whole lot in a dark room (movie watching environment) doesn't it? And if the controls are relatively intuitive, and the buttons easy to distinguish, then it matters even less.

[versapak]

The only thing that really makes remotes special is that they're wireless, unless you count the number pad, which I'll agree the Wiimote would have a hard time simulating. And only the latest generation of controllers feature wireless by default.

Personally, I don't see what the difference is (other than the aforementioned number pad). Is it that the buttons are clearly labeled? That matters a whole lot in a dark room (movie watching environment) doesn't it? And if the controls are relatively intuitive, and the buttons easy to distinguish, then it matters even less.

The biggest difference is in the fact there is no standard IR receiver for the Wii, so I would have to use the wiimote, instead of the universal remote that I already have that controls every other device I own.

Of course, it doesn't really matter in my case. I already have other systems that perform media playing duties far better than the Wii ever will/could.

[shmokes]

The lack of a remote is only one major limitation that will keep the Wii from ever being a serious media center.  But if you want to focus on that issue, yeah the lack of properly labeled buttons is huge.  The Xbox gamepad can do everything the remote can do and more.  I have wireless gamepads.  I bought a remote, though.  Why did I do that?  Answer that question and you'll be well on your way.

The wii controller lacks enough buttons to act as a media center remote.  A cannot be the play button, because it has to be the enter/select button (the button typically sitting between the directional buttons on most remotes).  So where is Play?  Where is Pause?  Where is Stop?  How do you turn subs on and off?  How do you turn volume up and down?  Where's Mute?

So, there you have it.  Not enough buttons.  What buttons there are aren't labeled for media center activities.  Lack of IR means that you have to have one remote to control your media center (the Wii), and another, presumably universal remote, to control your TV, Receiver, etc.  PITA. 

And, of course, that's just the problems with the remote.  That doesn't even address the other huge issues that will keep the Wii from ever being a decent media center.

[Mario]

The lack of a remote is only one major limitation that will keep the Wii from ever being a serious media center.
...
So, there you have it.  Not enough buttons.

I don't think this is a major limitation. A good media program for the Wii can use an onscreen control, for which the Wiimote would be well-suited to control. I can imagine hitting the 'A' button and calling up a set of icons can be easily clicked on.

Mario

[shmokes]

Yeah, that sounds spectacular.  Kind of like ever since I started using the Internet Channel I've wished I could give up the keyboard on my computer and just use a Wii controller for everything.  Trust me, it sounds better on paper.  Using an on-screen remote that you have to point at with the Wii controller would suck REALLY REALLY hard.

[danny_galaga]

 apparently they made games for the wii. i'm going to play some of those on my wii when i get it

[versapak]

 apparently they made games for the wii. i'm going to play some of those on my wii when i get it

Nevermind the fact that the topic is specifically about the Wii being fully hacked.


Of course you will play games. The point is that now the options will be open to do much more than that.

[shmokes]

Hey . . . maybe we'll be able to play Virtual Console games from an SD card now!  That would be a plus (not that I'm even close to running out of space yet.  I only have like 4 VC games, I think.

[MajorLag]

A can't be the play button because it has to be the enter/select button? Is there ever a context wherein both of those functions would be required separately? A little context sensitivity could go a long way. Now, I'm not saying a "real" remote wouldn't be better suited to the job, but the Wiimote wouldn't be that bad with a little thought put into it.

Also, I don't see why a real remote couldn't be used, if we really have full hackability now then it should be trivial to get one of the USB IR receivers to work on the thing.

[versapak]

A can't be the play button because it has to be the enter/select button? Is there ever a context wherein both of those functions would be required separately? A little context sensitivity could go a long way. Now, I'm not saying a "real" remote wouldn't be better suited to the job, but the Wiimote wouldn't be that bad with a little thought put into it.

Also, I don't see why a real remote couldn't be used, if we really have full hackability now then it should be trivial to get one of the USB IR receivers to work on the thing.

Yeah, in all fairness here...


The select button for directional controls is quite often the same as the play button on cheap DVD players.





[EDIT]

As for the USB IR thing...

I'd imagine there would first have to be real interest in such a thing, and being that the Wii is inferior in its hardware capabilities to other alternatives, I just doubt development on such a thing would ever get serious enough that such options would ever materialize.

[shmokes]

Yes there is a context where both of the functions are required separately.  When you're browsing through your music the select button won't act like the play button unless you've drilled all the way down to an individual song.  If you decide that you want to listen to an album you highlight the album and hit play.  If you want to listen to a particular song you highlight the album and press select, then you highlight the song and press either select or play.  Same goes if you want to listen to songs from all of the albums you have from a particular artist.  Highlight the artist and hit play and you have an instant playlist of that artists music from all albums.  Hit select and you're just treated to a list of the artists albums.

And, yeah, of course the Wii is capable of supporting a USB, or even Gamecube-port based IR.  There just never will be one because there's almost no market for it because Wii would make a sucky media center.

[MajorLag]

Fine, we'll make "1" the "add to playlist" button for that context. I don't see any reason in particular someone would choose the Wii over pretty much any alternative media center, but I don't think it would make a sucky one. It has plenty of power for that rather trivial task.

[tommy]

Now we just need to get Wii games to run on the cube and all will be well.

[ChadTower]

Hey . . . maybe we'll be able to play Virtual Console games from an SD card now!  That would be a plus (not that I'm even close to running out of space yet.  I only have like 4 VC games, I think.

...especially if you could decouple them from the console they were purchased on.

Since the Wiimote is an IR device, what is to stop someone from writing a generic driver for any IR remote?  It wouldn't be all that hard and they already exist open source for any given OS.

EDIT:  just looked it up... the Wiimote is a bluetooth device.  That opens up all sorts of possibilities for third party remotes... really really good ones.  Anyone have an old PDA around?  A cell phone?

[shmokes]

The Wii remote is an IR receiver, not a transmitter.  It's the little IR bar sitting on your TV actually shining IR light at you.  Also, very few remotes, even really good ones like Harmony remotes, support Bluetooth.  Admittedly, this is a limitation shared by the PS3.  It uses Bluetooth even for its media remote, which means that if I had a PS3 I'd have to keep the PS3 remote handy for BluRay discs, while my Harmony remote did everything else.

[ChadTower]

So then any other bluetooth device could function just fine as a remote with the right driver.  It is possible that they would do at least as much as the Harmony remotes at a lower price, too. 

[shmokes]

I think it could theoretically happen, and could even be potentially cool, but I think it's pretty unlikely.  PDAs are the only real option.  Cell phones have bluetooth, but as media center remotes they'd be at least as sucky as the Wii remote would be.  For PDAs they could be pretty much as cool as the software allowed them to be.  So far I haven't used any remote software for a PDA that made me want to use the PDA as a remote (though, admittedly, I've only tried one program).  But, really, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves.  There's no use discussing how good software will be that will never exist.  And it will never exist cos there's just not a big enough market for turning the Wii into a media center, IMO.

[ChadTower]

So far I haven't used any remote software for a PDA that made me want to use the PDA as a remote (though, admittedly, I've only tried one program).

 

[knave]

I'm pretty confident that a solution to the remote issue will come if DVD playback is introduced.  Really that's high on my wish list.  While I don't need to watch movies on the TV that the Wii is connected to, it would be nice to have the option without any other hardware.

I would also be pretty excited for some increased multiplayer capabilities but who knows.  I'm a unique demographic, I don't have nor am I going to get any other consoles so I want the Wii to do everything! 

[Hoagie_one]

do they make bluetooth universal remotes?  Then when theyhack it, we could be OK.

[ChadTower]

A quick interview with the guy in that video