Hinge advice please!

[pboreham]

Hiya,

I am now at a stage where I can connect my front to the cabinet. I am a little unsure how to do this though.

The door is very heavy (as per the Project Arcade book) and I dont think the hinges I've got will work (I got these:
)

The screws are quite small and also, if I screw them to the inside of the cab, the screws will go through the slot I made for t-molding. 

I've thought of a couple of ideas:

1) Cutting a door 'inside' the big door. So affix the larger piece of MDF with supports and jigsaw a smaller door inside this?

2) Affix the hinges to new supports inside the cabinet? If I glue/screw some 2x4 to the side of the cab (like you do to fix the other parts) and then put the hinges on there? Dont know if this would work.

3) Cut the door in half and have it open out like a cupboard. I quite favour this idea, but have the same prob with the hinges I have brought.

Would it be ok to use garden gate (i.e. the long metal ones) for the doors - or 'piano hinges' (long vertical hinges) instead?

Would appreciate some help as I've never used hinges before!

Oh, I really dont want to use the 'European' style hinges I dont fancy routing a hole out without going through the other side and the cab is assembled now, so I cannot take the sides off.

Please help!!!

[LiquidFire]

I would take your option #1. Your cabinet will have much more vertical stability if you fix the front and cut a smaller door size.

The hinges you have are pretty light, but are designed to avoid mortising.

IMO you would be better off installing a continuous (piano) hinge top to bottom, that also helps fill the void and can hold a tremendous amount of door weight, due to the large number of fasteners along it's length. (You buy longer than you need and cut to fit.)

Pilot-drill the screw holes, then place a drop of poly glue on the screw threads before installing.

Nice build photos-looking forward to your progress!

[pboreham]

I would take your option #1. Your cabinet will have much more vertical stability if you fix the front and cut a smaller door size.

The hinges you have are pretty light, but are designed to avoid mortising.

IMO you would be better off installing a continuous (piano) hinge top to bottom, that also helps fill the void and can hold a tremendous amount of door weight, due to the large number of fasteners along it's length. (You buy longer than you need and cut to fit.)

Pilot-drill the screw holes, then place a drop of poly glue on the screw threads before installing.

Nice build photos-looking forward to your progress!

Thanks Liquid - i think the piano hinge is the way to go - bloody had one in my hand yesterday too before I opted for those pictured above! 

I've got a hot-glue gun, so think I may glue the hinge to the cabinet and screw it. Oh - what about the issue with the t-molding groove? Like I mentioned, the screw holes could go through the groove - or shall I affix another baton of wood to the inside of the cab to house the hinges?

Thanks again, Paul.

[LiquidFire]

Hot melt may be convenient, but tends to harden on contact with the colder surface a bit too quickly. Using poly or wood glue *sparingly* is best for screws and gives you plenty of working time.

Depending on your construction design, setting the screws that close to the outside edge might be dicey. If you must, you could mix a little dust and glue together and pack the t-slot void first-then of course you will have to trim the molding to jump over those areas.

[BobA]

I think liquidfire also mentioned that a better idea even with a piano hinge is to cut a smaller door in your front panel and not to hinge the full front.  This would get rid of your t-molding problem with the hinge.

[pboreham]

I think liquidfire also mentioned that a better idea even with a piano hinge is to cut a smaller door in your front panel and not to hinge the full front.  This would get rid of your t-molding problem with the hinge.

Would it work if I added a baton of 2x4 to the inside of the cab and put the hinges onto that? Probably a really stoopid question, but as I've never worked with hinges before, I dont know if this is feasible or not?

[ScottS]

Hot melt may be convenient, but tends to harden on contact with the colder surface a bit too quickly. Using poly or wood glue *sparingly* is best for screws and gives you plenty of working time.

It surprises me to hear this, since wood glue doesn't "stick" to anything but wood and poly is a pretty lousy glue to begin with... If I were going to do this, and I probably wouldn't worry about it, I'd use an epoxy. You can buy it as a two-part putty or a two-part liquid. The liquid is probably easier to deal with if you can make the screw holes vertical. Otherwise, go with the putty and push it into the holes using a toothpick.

[ScottS]

Would it work if I added a baton of 2x4 to the inside of the cab and put the hinges onto that? Probably a really stoopid question, but as I've never worked with hinges before, I dont know if this is feasible or not?

I'm not sure I understand your design. Is the front designed to fit between the two sides? Or does it sit in front of the sides, attached to their edges? I'm assuming it probably fits between the sides. If that's the case, having the entire front hinged isn't a particularly good idea. As others have mentioned, you'll get much more rigidity and stability if the front is fixed in place. If you're not going to fix the front in place, I'd suggest mounting braces between the sides of the cabinet at the top and bottom of the opening. Perhaps this gives you the idea to reconsider your hinge placement? Given the problems you're facing with the T-molding, it might be better to place the piano hinge on the bottom of the cabinet, with the door opening downward, than on one of the sides.

Why does the front need to be hinged anyway? Usually access to the inside of a cabinet is through the back, under the control panel, or via the coin door mounted in the front...

[LiquidFire]

True, wood glue adheres to only wood, but it helps 'freeze' the surrounding *wood* threads so in this case it will help keep things together. (Fiber board is a terrible substrate for wood screw threads.) Epoxy idea is even better for this if you don't mind taking the time to mix. The best reason for using wood glue for thread locking is that you can damp-rag cleanup the whole job when you are done should any squeeze out.

Poly glue, also known as 'gorrilla glue' by one brand, sticks to everything. Two pieces of anything with poly glue between them and it will never separate. It has an expansion property that fills the voids in your joint. It is actually a poly-urethane liquid foam and has superior moisture resistance. The only key is figuring out how *little* it actually takes since it expands.

[ScottS]

Poly glue, also known as 'gorrilla glue' by one brand, sticks to everything. Two pieces of anything with poly glue between them and it will never separate. It has an expansion property that fills the voids in your joint. It is actually a poly-urethane liquid foam and has superior moisture resistance. The only key is figuring out how *little* it actually takes since it expands.

Destructive testing has shown that Gorilla Glue is one of the weakest available... It sticks to everything, but doesn't stick to anything particularly well. Plus it foams out all over the place and generally makes a mess. Fine Woodworking did a glue test recently and Gorilla Glue finished at the back of the pack consistently. Titebond III, regular yellow wood glue, and epoxy all did well. If you want to freeze the wood threads, a very liquid epoxy that wicks up the wood fibers is a great way to go. I've used similar products to fix rot and termite damage on my house and it's amazing how well they work. Granted they're expensive, potentially messy, and somewhat time consuming. You might also be able to use a thin CA (a.k.a. "super glue") to do the same thing.

[LiquidFire]

I have never used Gorrilla glue, it is the only trademark of that type I could think of. I use the Elmer's poly brand. I would not argue wih a trial in FW, but it would be surprising if it is chemically different than any other poly glue.

Of course, you could only compare it with the same type anyway, so a water-based aliphatic glue like Titebond would be in a different class. (Not moisture-proof either, if that is important.)

If the glue is 'foaming all over the place' then too much was used. With glues, more is not better.

The single best property may be the 'sandability' of the poly glues. Any excess is easily trimmed or sanded flat.

[AtomSmasher]

Oh, I really dont want to use the 'European' style hinges I dont fancy routing a hole out without going through the other side and the cab is assembled now, so I cannot take the sides off.

Just thought I'd mention that the European style hinges worked great for me and hold the weight very well.  It was a bit of a pain routing out the holes after assembling the cabinet, but to me it was well worth it.

[pboreham]

Oh, I really dont want to use the 'European' style hinges I dont fancy routing a hole out without going through the other side and the cab is assembled now, so I cannot take the sides off.

Just thought I'd mention that the European style hinges worked great for me and hold the weight very well.  It was a bit of a pain routing out the holes after assembling the cabinet, but to me it was well worth it.

I just didnt feel I could do it - without making a mistake, so thought it safer not to try!

I'm now having a solid panel fixed to a frame at the front of the cab - probably secured by velcro. Looks like it will work ok!