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LED Animation Editor - question for all the LED-Wiz Devs...
loadman:
;D... Only if you are still having fun!
RandyT:
Maybe I'm missing something, but this really seems like we're just adding 2 extra levels of translation for no apparent reason. The DLL's and OCX's out there accept data in the current PBA and SBA form. There's a reason for that....it's pretty much exactly the format in which the data is sent to the hardware.
As things were, animations were designed and then saved in the data format that could pretty much be handed directly to the DLL or OCX, which then passed it onto the hardware. With what has been proposed, the animation program will need to manage two versions of the animation. One that actually gets sent to the hardware for display purposes, and then the XML file. I suppose that everything could be passed through the XML generation / parse routines at save and load time and still be handled natively as before during design and playback, but I guess I'm struggling with the "whys" of inserting more processing in between.
Something else to consider. Originally, I had also started working on some simple "scripting" style commands where small animations could be kept in individual files and a script would dynamically load the files and play them This would allow for streaming directly from the files if so desired. With an approach of needing to load in XML files in their entirety and then parse them before playback, there could be delays between files that would negate the ability to do things like this.
I guess I'm too old school when it comes to things like this and would probably feel better about it if someone could please tell me how a this change will benefit users and developers in the end. :)
RandyT
headkaze:
First of all I dont think any decent programmer here isn't oldschool.
Were talking about changing the SBA command so it's reable and editable from notepad. Right now you have to convert a 16 bit integer using binary and that is just too hard for the average user. Now converting a string to a 16 bit integer on the other hand is one line of code. It's worth doing just for readability's sake.
We are converting a text format to the data that is sent to the ledwiz.dll. Having the data closely resemble what is sent to the dll and what is in the text file provides no benefit at all. Perhaps it's a benefit to the programmer, but any decent programmer can convert 1,0,1,1 to a binary number of 11. More processing inbetween is for the benefit of the end user, not the programmer.
Again when someone talks about delays in dealing with xml files I have to completely dismiss them as illinformed. If processing an xml file takes you more than a second your not doing it right. Were talking a couple hundred k's for an xml animation file here, it shouldn't take half a heartbeat to process.
At the end we are creating a format that is both easy to understand for the end user, and easy to process for the programmer. If you have issues dealing with xml, read up on it. I know new concepts in programming can be overwhelming at first but you will thank me once you figure it out. Parsing Xml is a skill you will come back to all the time, and something worth learning if your serious about programming.
The reason xml works for this project is simple: it has all the attributes in a file format needed for the job. The original format is not good enough for what is needed. Again, I have to fly my opinon flag, because I don't want to sound like I think I know more than anyone else.
RandyT:
--- Quote from: headkaze on July 23, 2007, 01:24:36 am ---First of all I dont think any decent programmer here isn't oldschool.
Were talking about changing the SBA command so it's reable and editable from notepad. Right now you have to convert a 16 bit integer using binary and that is just too hard for the average user. Now converting a string to a 16 bit integer on the other hand is one line of code. It's worth doing just for readability's sake.
--- End quote ---
The SBA command is 4 bank, 8-bit representation each of the outputs, not a 16 bit integer. And why does anyone really worry too much about building this by hand in notepad? If that's really your concern, keeping track of the syntax in XML will be as difficult if not more so for average users.
--- Quote --- More processing inbetween is for the benefit of the end user, not the programmer.
--- End quote ---
But I'm still unsure of what that "benefit" is to the end user. Unless it is to make it "human readable" and I'm still wondering why that is a benefit since it doesn't do humans much good to read it. That is why the editors are being built in the first place, to keep users from needing to deal with these types of things manually, correct?
--- Quote ---Again when someone talks about delays in dealing with xml files I have to completely dismiss them as illinformed. If processing an xml file takes you more than a second your not doing it right. Were talking a couple hundred k's for an xml animation file here, it shouldn't take half a heartbeat to process.
--- End quote ---
Well, a second is a long time when transitioning between short files you are streaming with a script. Maybe it doesn't take that long, I don't know. Have you used XML in this capacity in the past to say definitively what impact it could have?
--- Quote ---At the end we are creating a format that is both easy to understand for the end user, and easy to process for the programmer.
--- End quote ---
If we all do our work well, the end user should never have to open a file to look at it manually, so again I have to question that as "value." And IMHO. it doesn't make things easier for programmers, it just adds more complexity to the projects.
--- Quote ---If you have issues dealing with xml, read up on it. I know new concepts in programming can be overwhelming at first but you will thank me once you figure it out. Parsing Xml is a skill you will come back to all the time, and something worth learning if your serious about programming.
--- End quote ---
I can write a custom parser and generation routines that will handle that simple schema as quickly and with far less overhead than the MSXML libraries, and that's probably the approach I would take. It's just more work that I question the value of.
--- Quote ---The reason xml works for this project is simple: it has all the attributes in a file format needed for the job. The original format is not good enough for what is needed. Again, I have to fly my opinon flag, because I don't want to sound like I think I know more than anyone else.
--- End quote ---
And how is it not "good enough"? I don't mind that you have that opinion, I would just like to know the reasons for it. There are several methods that provide the functionality sought without having to deal with an intermediate file format. How are these inadequate in the "big picture" of things?
RandyT
arzoo:
Randy,
In regards to the SBA format - I agree that users may never look at the actual data when using the editor (although I'm sure some will). The need for better readability benefits us, the developers. We're the ones providing software support. If a user is having problems getting an animation to work with my plugin, I'm going to ask that they send me the file. And if I can visually understand what's going on, I can figure out what the problem is faster.
All the conversions from string data to the LED-Wiz function parameters should occur when the file is first loaded (into a memory resident data structure) - so there's no performance issue.
As for the decision to go with XML, I think it better encapsulates the animation frame structure.
I do realize that these decisions will require all of us to rework our code, but if we want to improve the layout, now is the time to do it, before there's a huge base of LWA files.
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