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Do you still need an I-PAC for shifting if you have 2x Ultimarc Ultrastiks?

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Anubis_au:
Hi

Another question during the planning stage of my project (the more you plan, the better the result, right?...)

I am planning on making my CP a (simple) two player setup, with each player having either six or seven play buttons. The pause button will also be the shifter, and I plan on making the top row of play buttons have all the control functionality (in shifted mode). Below is the link to that discussion thread:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=64962.0

At the time I did that thread, my plan was to use two Happ competition joysticks (which I used to have in my can conversion). Using Happs obviously meant using an I-PAC (or similar encoder, I don't want to get into that discussion...).

But now I've been reading about Andy's Ultrastik 360 and have started thinking about these sticks, given the mapping advantages they offer over other joysticks.

My question is this: since with an Ultrastik, you can have 8 player buttons connected through it, I can easily have 6 or 7 player buttons connected as planned, and on one of the joysticks, have the pause button connected to the eighth player button. But, if I go this route, can that pause button be a shifter?

Or, in order to get shifting functionality, do you need an encoder regardless, and its just bad luck that the joystick could have handled the six/seven player buttons?

What I'm getting at is: can you do away with the I-PAC and its shifting ability if you go with two Ultrastiks, or do you still need an I-PAC if you want to shift keys?

If anyone or Andy knows the answer to this, it would help. I'm truly lost on this one reading all the forums...

Kaytrim:
Lets see if I understand things a bit here.  You want a CP with nothing but action buttons for player one and player two.  What about coin and start?  Whether you use a coin door or not you will still need an input for game credits.  What about quit game?  If you have 7 action buttons per player that leaves you with only 1 extra button each.

Now it is possible to have a MAME action be a combination of two buttons or button plus a joystick direction.  However with the inputs that you have there you are very limited on combos.  Not only that but mistakes could happen during game play.  You and/or your guests could get confused and trigger the game quit when trying to coin up or start.

Personally I would like to see a few more inputs on these sticks so an additional encoder card is not needed.  However I would strongly suggest that you get an encoder card and lay out a few buttons for other necessary actions.  Credit, Start, Quit Game & Pause in my opinion are necessary buttons to have on any MAME cab.

just my $.02
TTFN :cheers:
Kaytrim

Anubis_au:
Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought...

I will still have the typical control functionality (coin, start, select game / quit game) but I am trying to do away with having dedicated buttons for this. Instead, I want my normal player buttons to double as these admin buttons.

Now, as far as I understand, with a keyboard encoder:
You can program the encoder so that pause is also the shifter, and then program (for example) Player 2 Button 6 (shifted) to send the esc character to the pc. MAME, in turn, receives the esc key signal, and appropriately quits the game.

What I am asking is: can you program MAME itself, so that Quit Game, instead of being esc, is (for example) Player 1 Button 8 PLUS Player 2 Button 6. So, if MAME gets these two signals together, it will quit...

Because if you can so program MAME, then I can accomplish everything I want without needing an encoder:

P1 Button 8 = pause
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 4 = coin insert
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 5 = Player 1 Start
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 6 = Select Game

etc

Kaytrim:

--- Quote from: Anubis_au on April 12, 2007, 12:00:20 am ---Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought...

I will still have the typical control functionality (coin, start, select game / quit game) but I am trying to do away with having dedicated buttons for this. Instead, I want my normal player buttons to double as these admin buttons.

Now, as far as I understand, with a keyboard encoder:
You can program the encoder so that pause is also the shifter, and then program (for example) Player 2 Button 6 (shifted) to send the esc character to the pc. MAME, in turn, receives the esc key signal, and appropriately quits the game.

What I am asking is: can you program MAME itself, so that Quit Game, instead of being esc, is (for example) Player 1 Button 8 PLUS Player 2 Button 6. So, if MAME gets these two signals together, it will quit...

Because if you can so program MAME, then I can accomplish everything I want without needing an encoder:

P1 Button 8 = pause
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 4 = coin insert
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 5 = Player 1 Start
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 6 = Select Game

etc

--- End quote ---

Short answer, "Yes" (read my last post middle paragraph, first sentence)

Detailed answer, Not sure how to do this by editing the new XML config files.  However I do know how to do it another way.  While running a game in MAME pause the game (p) then press the tab key.  This menu system is where you will map your buttons and joysticks.  Choose the action you want to map and press the enter key.  Next press both buttons at the same time.  This programs an 'AND' condition.  If you want the same action to be triggered by one or another button then press only one button.  After the buttonpress is registered press the enter key again then the second button you want mapped.  This programs an 'OR' condition.

I would recommend that you have the pause button be a combo as well.  Because you might get a pause/unpause action if the button is pressed too long.

TTFN :cheers:
Kaytrim

Anubis_au:

--- Quote from: Kaytrim on April 12, 2007, 01:41:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Anubis_au on April 12, 2007, 12:00:20 am ---Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I thought...

I will still have the typical control functionality (coin, start, select game / quit game) but I am trying to do away with having dedicated buttons for this. Instead, I want my normal player buttons to double as these admin buttons.

Now, as far as I understand, with a keyboard encoder:
You can program the encoder so that pause is also the shifter, and then program (for example) Player 2 Button 6 (shifted) to send the esc character to the pc. MAME, in turn, receives the esc key signal, and appropriately quits the game.

What I am asking is: can you program MAME itself, so that Quit Game, instead of being esc, is (for example) Player 1 Button 8 PLUS Player 2 Button 6. So, if MAME gets these two signals together, it will quit...

Because if you can so program MAME, then I can accomplish everything I want without needing an encoder:

P1 Button 8 = pause
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 4 = coin insert
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 5 = Player 1 Start
P1 Button 8 + P1 Button 6 = Select Game

etc

--- End quote ---

Short answer, "Yes" (read my last post middle paragraph, first sentence)

Choose the action you want to map and press the enter key.  Next press both buttons at the same time.  This programs an 'AND' condition. 

--- End quote ---

OK, I tried it, and it works, kinda... I thought I'd share my findings with all in case others have the same question...

It works, you can select two inputs at once and MAME sets it up that both must be pressed in order to achieve the result. (I made o+p = quit MAME, instead of esc, to test it).

The problem / issue is, because the function is an AND state, it makes no difference in what order you press the keys. As long as both keys get pressed, the action will occur. So, it is not exactly like a shifted function in terms of safety of accidental action.

With a shifter you must be more deliberate in your button pressing. By doing away without an encoder, you can still achieve a result like what we discussed above, but at a greater risk of accidentally quitting a game, for example.

Although this could again, be minimised / mitigated by making the "shifter" in an out of the way place...

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