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State of the FE devs?
MYX:
I am about done with the build of the cab. I always hate when I see so much talk about writing this stuff and it flys over my head. So I decided a while back that once the cab was done to start to learn to write some flavor of code. On a vacation about 9 years ago I bought a book about HTML. I read it and when I got home I wrote my first web page in note pad. Was it pretty, um... no. But I picked it up fairly quickly. And now occasionally I have to dink with some Java script when I am working in After Effects to write animation expressions. I understand that things like VB6 and C++ are far deeper than this, but I would assume that the process is similar... Write... Doesn't work...de bug until you find that you typed a , instead of a . then bang head on wall.
I asked Randy T about it and he recommended VB6. When I went to find info about that I learned that it is not only a language, but you have to buy a really frakin expensive program to do it in. I then found Visual Studio Express It is free and said to be geared towards the new programmer or hobby programmer. I really want to understand what the heck Howard is actually saying. I would like to be able to give at least a somewhat educated question instead of trying to ask questions that probably are not even close to how things work. I want to be able to add my own ideas to this FE business. I was wondering if you have any knowledge about the express version of VB2005?
The following, even though it may sound like total criticism, is actually said with the highest of respect to you guys. You have done what we can't. You have stepped up to the plate and given us FEs for MAME.
I think in a lot of ways, the reason why people are getting frustrated with FE a over FE b is because one writer may develop towards things that would personally benefit him because he uses a specific brand of hardware vs .another programmer who writes towards another type of hardware. Recently with the LEDWiz stuff coming to light (sorry, no pun intended) Some people are not at all interested because the original cabs may not have used this type of hardware, while others see it as a new gaming experience. I tend to fall into the later category. I lived through the 80's. I lived in arcades. My friends would ride our bikes for an hour to go to the Castle Golf and Games to go play Gauntlet and waste all our birthday money on the damn thing. But I am letting MAME be the creators of original game play. To me the FE and it's abilities never existed in the arcade. Nor did the flashy animated backgrounds. Heck if you want authenticity, you build a FE and when you flip a switch the screen comes to life and you wait for it to boot up, then, you got one game.
Naw, that was then and this is now. I say lets ("lets" is assuming I pick this stuff as well as I hope) freak the thing out and make it jump through all the hoops.
<rant>
Up until I started building my cab, I have always used MAME32. I had built a desktop control to play with my computer. Once I started with the cab, I knew I wanted to use a FE so I could skin it and make a part of the main design of the cabinet so everything has a cohesive look. As to the question about buying a FE that did everything that one would wish it to do... I saw many of you say you would never buy such a thing. But please remember, YOU ARE THE PROGRAMMERS WHO WRITE AND UNDERSTAND THIS STUFF. I had no knowledge of any of this stuff and it has taken a couple of months of weeping and gnashing of teeth to get to the point I am (which is still not very far) I'll tell you, when I have to dance through 4 different config files to finally find the place to change a 1 to a 0 and then I have to make a batch file put it in here then tell some line in one of those 4 or 5 config files to look under the kitchen sink to find the batch file, then make this load that and so on and so forth is just silly. You are making the user become a dang programmer. Heck yes, I would pay $25 for a FE that said, ok where are the roms, thank you, where are the snaps, thank you, Have a page of supported hardware. Click here and the thing just works works. Instead of Here is my FE and if you want it to do XYZ then go and write a script to make it do ABC and then use this widget to convert to XYZ, then go to config a and switch the 1 back to a 0. I want to click on the stuff I want, and ignore the stuff I do not want. The FE then puts batch file XYZ in place for me. If it is something that has to depend on info from me, make a batch file wizard. Write, not in programese but in simple English what you want. In one FE I was something like "extract list from yaddayaddaXML" or DAT file. I have no idea what this means. I want another button that says "I have no clue, you choose." There is a lot of language in these things that is written to someone who knows what you know. Write instructions that the everyday man can understand. Either that or make far better support docs (perhaps eve with a picture or 2). I see a lot of pride from each of you in your programs. And there is good reason to be. There is a lot of very cool stuff being done. So if you are this good then YOU be the programmer and let the user be the user. If you want your FE to be the best (which secretly you do want) and you want people to say Dang, "This IS" the best dang piece uh of dang software I ever saw man!!!, then write the best and make it easy to use. There are probably more complaints about difficulty of use than about anything else in this hobby. You are busy humming along building this cab, then bam! You hit a wall when it comes time to make it work with the FE.
Aight I am done </rant>
screaming:
--- Quote from: swindus on September 13, 2006, 09:49:48 am ---But the MAME module of AtomicFE is nothing else like a default MAME installation with a default path on the same drive as the FE ...
I have to agree with Minwah here. It's not easy to create a framework that will work for all users out there. It works if the user will use exactly the given FE structure, but I know a lot of users which are not willing or can not use this structure for example when using more than one harddrive.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
--- End quote ---
Why does "not easy" mean "impossible"? Are you all afraid of a little challenge?
swindus:
--- Quote from: screaming on September 13, 2006, 09:58:04 am --- Why does "not easy" mean "impossible"? Are you all afraid of a little challenge?
--- End quote ---
No, I don't think so.
The current FE's are exactly that what you want. A framework for a lot of emulators. You are right, they work all in a different way, some easy, some more complicated. But they are always a try of a developer to create the 'ultimate' way to work with almost every emulator in a easy way. Maybe for now there is no better way to do this.
Additional is not only up to the developer to create a nice software. It's also part of the user, especially when it is freeware. No bug reports, no wishes means, no development in the right direction for the user, thats it.
screaming:
I have been giving Minwah suggestions for MAMEWAH for well over 2 years now because that's the FE I chose to use. Some he as implemented some he has not. Some I've been able to directly contribute with (like a config program), but most I can't because it's not open sourced (or even "shared source"d).
I am not alone by any means, and MAMEWAH isn't the only FE that I've given my input on.
swindus:
No offence here, I just share my point of view. I know that you contribute a lot to the community so don't take any argument personally.
So why don't you try to create a FE dev group which will build the best FE ever?
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