Transformers - the live action film

[Vigo]

So, I didn't see any previous posts on the upcoming movie, and I know some of you out there are transformers fans...so:

http://www.transformersmovie.com/

 

[SirPeale]

Whadaya know?  I was sure there was at least one TF Movie thread...but nope.

Peter Cullen's voicing Optimus Prime. 

[missioncontrol]

there was at one time.....

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=39929.0


but some of the links are now bad.....

[Vigo]

there was at one time.....

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=39929.0


but some of the links are now bad.....

Haha, yeah...the only working pic on the old thread is this:


Well, I don't think this is a bad re-thread, since there is a lot of info out there on the movie now.

 

[AtomSmasher]

The leaked pic of the new optimus prime looks pretty dumb, or at least nothing like optimus prime should look like, http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/top/new-transformers-movie-update-optimus-prime-is-in-the-picture-the-armys-acting-up-187404.php

[Vigo]

Yeah, michael bay responded to this: SInce they want the movie to look realistic, they did't test shots with the original truck, optimus prime would have been only 15-20 feet high with that sort of truck, so they decided to go with a larger truck to have a "to scale" transormation.

[thebrownshow]

I don't mind the style of the truck as much as I do the paint job.... just doesn't seem right, but I don't think that really matters now that they've decided on Peter Cullen... his voice IS Optimus Prime.

[jbox]

Yeah, michael bay responded to this: SInce they want the movie to look realistic, they did't test shots with the original truck, optimus prime would have been only 15-20 feet high with that sort of truck, so they decided to go with a larger truck to have a "to scale" transormation.

See, I'm down with that, as the whole "giant robot shrinks to walkman" thing didn't necessarily work for everyone. The paint job doesn't really bother me either, since those things can be fixed in post if it doesn't work. What I can't wait for is the outcry when people finally twig that Megatron will have to be changed since they aren't doing the whole "giant robot shrinks to walkman" thing...   

[SirPeale]

What I can't wait for is the outcry when people finally twig that Megatron will have to be changed since they aren't doing the whole "giant robot shrinks to walkman" thing...   

See, I never dug that either.  Megatron is much better suited as a tank.

It was just dumb...shrinking to a smaller, weaker figure...and letting your treacherous 2nd handle you.  "Oops, mighty Megatron, I seem to have crushed you in my hands!  Now I, Starscream, will lead the Decepticons!"

[Havok]

I don't mind the style of the truck as much as I do the paint job.... just doesn't seem right, but I don't think that really matters now that they've decided on Peter Cullen... his voice IS Optimus Prime.

Yeah - Peter Cullen was awesome in My Little Pony and Friends!

 

[thebrownshow]

Didn't watch My Little Pony, so we'll have to take your word for it.

[Havok]

Liar!

Haha - got that from imdb.com, wasn't sure who he was...

[Vigo]

I love imdb!!!

[Howard_Casto]

Missed this thread... couple of "transformers physics" notes. 

The science behind how some of the transformers shrink is explained in a season 1 episode of g1, the term escapes me, but the gist of it was some of the autobots shrank down and went inside megatron to get the star of cybertron or some non-sense, anyway it showed that shrinking technology is common-place in transformers tech, so common place that it could easily be implemented in any of the actual robots. 

The reason behind the shrinking actually makes sense when you think about it.  Megatron was a laser-based weapon.  Everybody knows that when you tighten a laser beam it becomes more powerful.  Also when you shrink something  that is normally large it becomes quite dense because the only way to shrink something is to tighten the space between the sub-atomic particles and thus it'd be pretty hard to simply crush megatron once he's in gun mode. Finally remember that at the beginning of the transformers they had an energy shortage.  Making a laser beam come out of a giant gun the size of meg's would prety much drain him with one shot.  Now why megatron always let Starscream fire him and why his gun mode looked suspiciously like a 1980's pistol, that one is beyond me. 

Megatron only become a tank in the g2 comic books.  His tank form was designed by cobra and his turrent shot some kind of sonic disruptor instead of a laser.  Also they used some sort of hi-grade secret cobra armor to make his shell so there was no need to shrink anymore.  And no those crappy anime versions of megatron in some sort of tank mode don't coun't as those series don't follow the orirignal storyline arc and are therefore crap. 

Soundwave's shrinking is so obvious that I shouldn't even have to mention it.  How can you be a spy when you transform into something (anything) that's 20 feet tall?  He shrank to a size that would be completely un-noticed by the giant autobots, and a form that would blend in with the smaller human environments. 

Unless the news has changed, Optimus is supposed to be a firetruck, which pretty much ruins the movie right there, end of story.  I had great hopes for this one too, way to ruin another sacred memory from my childhood hollywood!!

[NightGod]

Unless the news has changed, Optimus is supposed to be a firetruck, which pretty much ruins the movie right there, end of story.  I had great hopes for this one too, way to ruin another sacred memory from my childhood hollywood!!

If you check the link, it appears that it's "truck with flames painted on it", not "firetruck".

[shmokes]

I had great hopes for this one too

You had great hopes for a Michael Bay project?  Are you daft?

Pearl Harbor
Bad Boys
Bad Boys II
Armageddon
The Island
The Rock

Michael Bay has never EVER made a movie that was not specifically designed to make my eyes and ears bleed in agony.

[thebrownshow]

Out of the movies on shmokes' list, I enjoyed the ones with "THE" in the title, so there's potential for "THE Transformers" to be a good summer popcorn flick.

[cdbrown]

Interesting - I enjoyed all those movies - but I do like those movies with action, excitement, very little drama/romance.

[Vigo]

Let's see...

Pearl Harbor: Didn't focus on pearl harbor until the last 20 min.
Bad Boys 1 & 2: Nothing special to see, many similiar flick to this out there.
Armageddon: For some reason, as crappy as the movies are made, there hasn't been a single bruce willis movie I haven't disliked. I have to hand the credit to Bruce on that one. (and steve buschemi)
The Island: Pretty darn good first half! Very predictable Second half. started sucking after steve buschemi was taken out of the picture.
The Rock: Not a bad flick. Nothing to drop my jaw at, but entertaining. solid B+


Shmokes, why are you being a big downer and reminding me of michael bay?  

[NightGod]

/shrug, I like Michael Bay movies.

Granted, I go into them specifically expecting very little plot and lots of explosions and fancy camera work. For what he sets out to do with his movies, he does it well. He may be the cotton candy of the movie industry, but even cotton candy is awesome as long as you only have it once or twice a year while you're hanging out at the county fair.

He has no allusions to being a Kurosawa, I see no reason to expect anything more from his movies than he appears to aim for and, as such, I'm entertained by them.

[Vigo]

However, there are a million transformers fans out there who are completly anal about the details of this move and will want it to be a masterpiece...I don't think people were so pumped about "The island" or "Bad boyz"  that they talked about it two years in advance.

You are right though, he can make a fine fluff movie...I just worry that this isn't the right movie to make fluff.

[missioncontrol]

[missioncontrol]

[NightGod]

However, there are a million transformers fans out there who are completly anal about the details of this move and will want it to be a masterpiece...I don't think people were so pumped about "The island" or "Bad boyz"  that they talked about it two years in advance.

You are right though, he can make a fine fluff movie...I just worry that this isn't the right movie to make fluff.

For the record, anal fanboys are pretty high on my list of people I like to mock. Just shut up and enjoy the movie for the derivative work that it is, damnit!

[jbox]

Sure, there is a certain point where you point at people and laugh because they forget it is "Just a movie"/book/TV show/etc...  I mean, some dorks out there are so into these fake universes they even have arguments about which spaceship could beat up another spaceship! Hah! Losers... 

*BUT* people who deliberately license famous I.P. are doing so for the purpose of generating revenue. They didn't pay $X'ty million bucks for the name Transformers just to have everyone shrug and say "eh, don't know if I'll go see it, it's just another movie." Like HHGTTG, X-Men, Spiderman, and all the other cross-media properties, the producers want those fanboys out there screaming "ROBOTS IN DISGUISE!!!" and dressing up at premiers generating newspaper coverage. Subsequently, if you want those people pushing your movie they need to get something out of it too, or else you should just call the thing "big fighting robot-machines" and not try to pretend your goal is to cash in on all those wasted Saturday morning memories...     

[missioncontrol]

I went to see Dukes of Hazzard and I felt ripped off... even though my movie ticket was free inside the Season 3 DVD set....

it was a very sad day for me..... 

[NightGod]

Ah, but those people are going to show up in costume and stand outside screaming "ROBOTS IN DISGUISE" for any movie that is made with this kind of budget and the special effects/action sequences a director like Michael Bay is known for. Oh, sure, they'll go home and login to their fanboi forums and ---smurfette--- and moan about how Optimus Prime's arm was able to bend 5% further than it ever did in the cartoons or how Starscream wasn't coniving enough for their tastes, but all the general public is ever going to see is that footage of them stomping around covered in painted cardboard and sleeping in chairs for two nights prior to the release night to be sure they get in for the first showing.

With the kind of money and special effects that are being thrown at this movie (not to mention the 4th of July release date), it's obvious to me that the movie is going to be long on things going boom and short on plot. Then again, if we look back honestly at the cartoons we watched when we were growing up, that's exactly how they were back then.

[Howard_Casto]

I had great hopes for this one too

You had great hopes for a Michael Bay project?  Are you daft?

Pearl Harbor
Bad Boys
Bad Boys II
Armageddon
The Island
The Rock

Michael Bay has never EVER made a movie that was not specifically designed to make my eyes and ears bleed in agony.

Let me make this perfectly clear... I HATE Michael Bay.  I had hopes for the flick because initially it was announced that Spielgberg himself would be directing if not having a major influence over the film.  Apparently though, the guy that made virtually every good movie in teh history of movies isn't interested though, which is stupid on his part because he is known for making a franchise out of nothing, imagine what he could do one of the most popular franchises in history.  

The more that comes out about this film, the more I realize that mr jaws himself had little or nothing to do with it.  

A prime example:
It's my understanding that bumblebee is going to be in the flick but he is NOT going to be a VW bug.  Is this guy THAT dense?  That's how bumblebee got his name, he's a yellow VW "bug" with black trim.  And since the bug was re-issued a few years back, it would make perfect sense for him to still use that disguise.  

About the "it's just a franchise" comments.  That's kind of like saying Star Wars was just some franchise when it not only single-handedly invented special effects and the "popcorn" blockbuster but had universal appeal to geeks and normals alike.  

The transformers is a deceptively influental franchise.  It started the idea of "action figure" along with it's sister show gi-joe.  No longer were boys subjected to glorified ken dolls for toys, now toys actually did something.  The show spawned a half dozen comic book series, a dozen re-iterations of the original series (unfortunately all anime and all crap save maybe the early pretenders/headmasters of the late 80's) more toys than you cna shake a stick at, the very excellent beast wars/beast machines series sequels and quite possibly the best/worst movie of all time ... Transformers the Movie.

No not this upcoming schlock, the orignal animated movie.  Mind you it wasn't a masterpiece, but name one other flick that Featured Leonard Nimoy Orson Wells, the micro machines guy and a sound track by Van Halen and Weird Al?  Also, although the dialog was the usual "I'm thinking something, so I must speak it aloud" style that was popular at the time, the plot was quite good.  Apparently it moved a lot of people because in season 3 of the series they had to resurrect Prime because they got so many complaints.

Like 20 transformers died in the movie and the only two anyone gave a crap about was Prime and Starscream, so Prime is literally the robot equivelent of mickey mouse. Making prime not look like prime is like drawing mickey as a squirrel.  People who aren't hardcore Mickey fans no longer recgnize the charcter and don't watch the film while hardcore disney fans are pissed because it isn't the mickey they know and love.  It makes no sense.  It has been tried before btw.... in an anime series in the late 90's Optimus was "re-invisioned" as a firetruck. The show lasted a quarter of a season, which is unheard of considering all other anime versions of transformers lasted at least a full season, usually more. 

Mind you until recently (the news of the movie made me feel nostalgic) I hadn't watched the transformers since their original airing in the 80's but I would still consider myself a fan.  The series might have not been a masterpiece, but the way it was done gave it enough charm to be considered a classic.  I mean hell, something most have been done right, the Japaneese have based their whole culture around giant transforming robots.  I don't have any problem with the movie not being prefect, I just hate to see it loose that charm.  With each press release it becomes apparent that people involved with the film aren't familiar with the transformers story arc.  

You know why films like Spiderman did well and films like Catwoman did poorley?  It's quite simple, Spiderman was a uber blockbuster that set the trend for this wave of superhero flicks because Rami knew a lot about spiderman and made the film as close to the comic book spiderman world as humanly possible.  Catwoman, The new Superman, and the later Batman films on the other hand, were done by people that didn't know ANYTHING about the franchises they were working on and wanted to "put their own spin" on the films.  WTF man?  The studio wants you to cash in on the already established fan base, the fans want you to cash in on the already established fan base.  Why make your own world when you have years and years of back story?  You just have to pick some memorable characters, write a story around it (or re-tell an origin story) make costumes based off of the already established characters and hire actors that can act decent and look reasonably like the characters.  In other words, if you shut up and stick to the franchise, you can get away with making a decent movie and it'll become great.  

So for me, ruining a franchise with a crappy cash-in is unforgivable, simply because any idiot can make a good franchise movie if they simply get off their hi-horse and do the film how everyone expects it rather than trying to get all artsie and "re-envision" the property.

Transformers is especially a no-brainer.  Dialog is barely even required, just make the robots look like they did in the series and get the original voice actors (save the guy who vioced starscream who passed away a few years back).  When they can only get one out of the two, it is beyond sad.  

Eh, I'll remain somewhat optimistic as the film is still in production and there is still time for someone involved to buy a clue and fix the visuals. Until then I go to consult the matrix of leadership.

Till all are one!

p.s.  mission you felt ripped off about the Dukes of Hazzard?  Did you see the trailers before you went?  It stars the dude from jackass, the dude from american pie and jessica simpson, the sucker was a sinking ship as soon as the casting was completed.  

[missioncontrol]

Go-Bots are better......





oh .....and Howard... I don't watch enough tv to see movie trailers.....

[Howard_Casto]

The hasbro sued the creators of the go-bots for copyright infringement and won. Eventually hasbro acquired the license of the go-bots as part of the settlement fee and they are still sold to this day..... as a line of transformers specifically designed for pre-schoolers.  So they are finally in their rightful place, lame knock-offs of a superior product only found appealing to children under the age of 6. 


Mission if you don't watch tv then you don't know what the dukes of hazzard is and therfore you don't have anything to complain about. 

[missioncontrol]

I know what Dukes of Hazzard was When I did watch TV and the movie wasn't it.....

but anyways.... when's the Voltron movie coming out? Voltron kicked the transformers ass too.....

[Howard_Casto]

Voltron was a HORRIBLE show.. down right horrible. 

Every single episode was exactly the same and I mean exactly.  A random giant monster thingy flies in and thrashes the planet for the first 18 min of the show.  There's also some boring pseudo-comical sub-plot going on, but nobody cares as it involves the pilots and they are all one dimensional and boring. Anyway...out come our dorky Aime stereotypes to the rescue! Que the stock footage of the lions coming out of their hidey holes!  They all get into virtually identical lions (how lame is that?)  and promptly get their butt handed to them.  Last 30 seconds of the show "let's form voltron!" and Que the stock footage of the lions connecting to form voltron.  Voltron punches the beast a few times, then summons his sword and slices it in half.  The end. 

Even more infuriating than that is the legacy it caused.  From that point on, every Anime childern's show was required to have this lame gimmick, the gratutious stock footage clips of the gimmick happening and virtually no story or interesting action to be found.  This is exactly why I hate the Anime Transformer series, they turned a great show into a glorified episode of voltron!  Take a look at the current series cybertron.  Now all the transformers can merge with each other... all of them!  And they have these lame gimmicks, such as planet keys. 15 out of the 20 minutes of show is comprised of those lame stock footage clips of the robots transforming, linking up, ect. 

And the worst bi-product of voltron is the power rangers.  Dear god the power rangers.  Explain to me how a show with one episode can be on for 11 seasons?  I sware I've seen nothing but power ranger costumes on little boys for halloween for the past 11 years.  Why is it allowed to live?  it's simple, the japs have much lower standards for television and they'll keep anything on the air. 


Transformers and voltron came out the same year, and they both featured robots that merged into larger robots.  The only difference is the transformers had cool, unique alternate modes and each episode actually had a story, with some sort of unique plot.  Also people cared about the characters, which is ironic considering the voltron cast was all human and they ended up being the robotic ones. 

I'm not saying I hate voltron... it's a cute little show and I enjoyed it as a kid. It's cute like those superhero tv series from the 60's were... cute because it's so bad.  But better than the transformers?  My friend you must have the nostalgia glasses on because even as a 6 year old boy sitting in front of the tube I realized that voltron, while fun to watch, was really cheesie. 

Regardless, Devastator could kick Voltron's butt any day. 

[SirPeale]

The reason that you won't see Bumblebee as a VW Bug is because VW won't lend their license to 'war toys' as they've had a "bad image" in the past.

Ever since the Alternators line of Transformers toys came out, that's been one of  the most sought after toys.  Regretably, it'll never happen.

People wanting this toy have 'kitbashed' their own together, taking Transformer parts and adding pieces of a model kit.

http://www.tfmaster.com/gallery_kb0048.php

[missioncontrol]

captain caveman could hand Devastator's ass out on a silver platter..........

[thebrownshow]

Voltron was a HORRIBLE show.. down right horrible. 

You shut your mouth!

Even more infuriating than that is the legacy it caused.  From that point on, every Anime childern's show was required to have this lame gimmick, the gratutious stock footage clips of the gimmick happening and virtually no story or interesting action to be found. 

Actually, that's really not a legacy caused by Voltron.  Japanese cartoons and American cartoons found different ways to cut production costs.  American cartoons just used crappier animation, they'd use 5 frames instead of 15, or cut down the detail in certain scenes (just think back to GI Joe or Transformers); whereas Japanese cartoons used tricks like doing ONE frame of detailed art and panning the camera over it to create motion, or reusing the same footage for multiple shows (like Speed Racer, and Voltron, etc.).

.... and Grape Ape could totally kick Captain Caveman's ass.

[missioncontrol]

Actually, that's really not a legacy caused by Voltron.  Japanese cartoons and American cartoons found different ways to cut production costs.  American cartoons just used crappier animation, they'd use 5 frames instead of 15, or cut down the detail in certain scenes (just think back to GI Joe or Transformers); whereas Japanese cartoons used tricks like doing ONE frame of detailed art and panning the camera over it to create motion, or reusing the same footage for multiple shows (like Speed Racer, and Voltron, etc.).

.... and Grape Ape could totally kick Captain Caveman's ass.

Scoobie Doo would run down the same hallway over and over again.....


And Might Mouse Could stomp a purple mud hole with Grape Ape

[thebrownshow]

Exactly, the classic "run down the hallway and see the same background over and over" thing.... hell, they probably used the same animation cells each time, why redraw it if you have a run cycle with the whole Mysteries, Inc. gang ready to go?

And not even Mighty Mouse could stand up to El Kabong.

[Howard_Casto]

The reason that you won't see Bumblebee as a VW Bug is because VW won't lend their license to 'war toys' as they've had a "bad image" in the past.

Ever since the Alternators line of Transformers toys came out, that's been one of  the most sought after toys.  Regretably, it'll never happen.

People wanting this toy have 'kitbashed' their own together, taking Transformer parts and adding pieces of a model kit.

http://www.tfmaster.com/gallery_kb0048.php

Yeah I know of the issue but I thought they would be over it by now.  Funny you'd think a german engineered "war machine" that's NOT killing Jews would be good press. 

Actually I don't know what the big deal is about liscensing issues.  On the old show and the original toy line they got away with it by making the cars almost identical but leaving off any emblems or company logos. 

[Howard_Casto]

Voltron was a HORRIBLE show.. down right horrible. 

You shut your mouth!

Even more infuriating than that is the legacy it caused.  From that point on, every Anime childern's show was required to have this lame gimmick, the gratutious stock footage clips of the gimmick happening and virtually no story or interesting action to be found. 

Actually, that's really not a legacy caused by Voltron.  Japanese cartoons and American cartoons found different ways to cut production costs.  American cartoons just used crappier animation, they'd use 5 frames instead of 15, or cut down the detail in certain scenes (just think back to GI Joe or Transformers); whereas Japanese cartoons used tricks like doing ONE frame of detailed art and panning the camera over it to create motion, or reusing the same footage for multiple shows (like Speed Racer, and Voltron, etc.).

.... and Grape Ape could totally kick Captain Caveman's ass.

That's not what I'm talking about.  It's not the fact that they use stock footage, as others have pointed out, american cartoons did that too.  It's HOW they used the stock footage.  Ok the first few episodes I could see the emerging and merging scenes dragging on for 2 minutes each, after that it's just filler for lack of story.  In every other series when they used stock footage people hated it, but apparently if its giant robots doing something you can repeat it over and over and nobody complains.  The thing is they used tricks before, but nobody had done it that blatently until then and once the companies knew they could get away with it, they ran.

There is nothing wrong with a series heavy on the action and light on the plot, it's just when it's the latter it has to be UNIQUE action.  At least 50 percent of the anime shows now are the gratituous "gimmick" shot which nobody needs to see after the first time. 

The only exception of course being the transformation sequence to he-man, for he is he-man and that lightning is frikkin awesome!!!

Regardless that's not the reason that Voltron is inferior to Transformers, it's inferior because of the lack of compelling characters and unique stories.  The Transformers weren't shakesphere, but at least in each episode they has a different problem, went different places and found a different solution.  Again it's a cute show, especially when you are 6... I've still got my 24 inch voltron around here somewhere.  There's no way I could sit through an episode today though, not a single one.  In comparison I recently got through watching the entire transformers g1 series, and although they definately seemed less sophisticated then I remembered, I still enjoyed watching every single show. 



Oh and even quickdraw himself tembles at the sight of the mighty planet-sized Orson Wells... err I mean Unicron. 

[AtomSmasher]

the rumor is that VW doesn't want their cars to have guns or be associated with war of any kind, which is why Bumblebee is going to be a camero, one of the new, unreleased cameros.  Its a horrible choice of bumblebee since he was basically the gay transformer, they should of used a mini cooper, focus, neon or some other small econo car for him.  Sideswipe would of been the best character to use the new camero on.