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New Product (In Stock/Shipping) - Apache Controls Blackhawk Push/Pull Spinner
2600:
--- Quote from: RandyT on July 06, 2006, 11:58:27 am ---
--- Quote from: 2600 on July 06, 2006, 08:40:48 am ---I doubt Arkanoid is using anything more then 1x on it's 486 tooth count.
--- End quote ---
I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I believe there were about 176 possible positions for the paddle. This would mean, with 1x on an original Arkanoid spinner, one would need to turn the knob roughly 132 degrees to move the paddle from one side of the screen to the other. I seem to recall that particular game having much finer control, meaning a shorter range of movement (~65 degrees?) which would put it 2x. If someone listening has an original, please measure this for us ;)
--- End quote ---
You may be right. I should of said I doubt they are using 4x. I was really trying to put the DOT information down for archive, the arkanoid comment was pure speculation. I haven't found a schematic for that board anywhere and haven't tested it.
I smell an entry for the wiki or maybe a seperate thread with the information from Kremmit, u_rebelscum, and any other factual information on games like what RandyT was asking for.
--- Quote ---And when engaging in a discussion about resolution and spinner controls, the topic of analog paddle games, which can require even higher resolution than Arkanoid to be playable at a decent level, should probably at least be brushed up against.
--- End quote ---
Again, you may be right and it probably should, but I think it is hard enough for some to keep on and understand one topic, then three: spinner, geared spinner, and analog.
Also, for everyone else my comments were just meant for listing in some sort of list. When it's all said and done, I'm more inclined to go Kevin's route and just see if I had fun.
As for Xiaou2,
I usually avoid any thread after you post in it like the plague. You seem to have enough knowledge to think you know what you are talking about, but like this example you seem to have it @$$ backwards, even after u_rebelscum pointed out your misunderstanding. Before you blow up, I highly suggest you do a quick google and research this subject before you say anything else. If I'm wrong in my understanding of how the resolution of encoder wheels and optics work, please someone let me know I'm wrong. I'll fully admit it as I'm not an expert on the subject. I definitely don't want to pull a Xiaou2 and spit out the same wrong information out everytime any topic comes up for discussion.
MameMaster!:
--- Quote from: Havok on July 03, 2006, 02:02:01 pm ---Hey Kev,
How does this compare to the GGG spinner, which seems to be the highest resolution spinner available today?
--- End quote ---
...actually I did the review on that one (GGG)...and it just so happens that I just bought the Apache DOT spinner as well (OK, I'm almost as odd as Kevin as now I own 4 spinner (including 2 Oscar Control ones).
I literally just opened the package on this thing....and I have to say as Kevin did...this thing is really well built and heavy. Everything screams quality.
I haven't tried it yet, but I have a feeling that my findings would be similar to Kevin's.
That being said the GGG spinner and this one are two different products with a big price difference for the push/pull function.
I am totally thrilled with the GGG spinner and I have a feeling I will be as well with this one...but again, I see them as having made 2 very separate purchases as personally I've made my "modules" with custom controls as I like to get to the original control schemes as closely as possible for games.
Bottom line....it all comes down to $$....just like life. There's a lot to like about both of these spinners if you're just comparing the 2.
As a matter of fact.....I picked this up for module 10....the DOT Module! :cheers:
1UP:
I will say one thing about Xiaou2--he has the amazing ability to review ANY product without ever putting down the $$$ to try it out. I wish I had that ability. I could save a lot on testing. :notworthy:
And now while I wait for the backlash of my comments to follow...
I am going to try this product, then formulate my own opinions. I really dont' care how it works, as long as it works well! I have been waiting for someone to make a new up/down design, and now it is here. Thanks for putting up the money and effort it takes to bring a new product to market, many here may not realize what that really means. Any new product runs the risk of not even selling, and it takes a certain amount of guts for a small business or individual to go ahead and make a product you believe in. I hope you will be well rewarded. :cheers:
Kremmit:
--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on July 06, 2006, 01:06:01 pm ---
You just dont get it...
Mame is most likely set up in such a way as to REDUCE counts...
...
...This isnt opinion, its Fact.
--- End quote ---
It seems your "facts" are predicated on what you consider to be "most likely".
You understand how controllers work, I know you do. But when it comes to how Windows and MAME handle mouse input data, I'm sticking with U_Rebel.
Xiaou2:
Kremmit,
You are quoting two differnt parts of my post and putting them together into something
else.
ALSO.. as far as Urebel goes.. I do not see ANYWHERE where he mentions how mame
handles each game at both a driver level, and internally elsewhere in mame. Do you???
------------
" The original controller had a 72 tooth encoder, and the game saw 144 'clicks' per rotation. (If I hacked a mouse on to the same controller, mame would see 288 'clicks' per rotation due to the increase in technology.)
Basically, there were 1x, 2x and (now) 4x 'clicks' per number of teeth. So you can't just go by number of teeth. For comparison, the 48 tooth BlackHawk generates (AFAIK) 192 (4x48) 'clicks' per rotation, while the '720 controller generated 144 (2*72)."
"So even though it has less teeth than '720, the BlackHawk has a "higher resolution" than the original '720 controller"
-------------
That statement would be true Only IF mame didnt mess with the values being sent to it. Only if mame didnt choose to ignore, pole less frequently, or subtract data..etc. So untill you get those facts - all of this above prooves nothing.
And trust me, I do respect Urebel.
1up, you dont want backlash.. yet you post in a way that deserves it.
When did I say I was REVIEWING this product? I was offering suggestions
for improovments.
As for knowing how something may react, thats from
knowledge and years as a repairguy and manager at an arcade.. as well
as from failed attempets from building my own controllers and other devices.
There is a true "Logic" behind what I say. Logic that is deteremined by
true mechanical properties.
MameMaster, I believe you may have a better ability to accuratly review
the differences between the two spinners. Unlike other Review sites,
maybe you wont kiss --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- and say they are both swell. Instead, actually
having the Brass to say there are differences and what those differences
are.
Try heading over to any other review sight and seeing how much more
critical they are.. and to the depths of comparison they go to...
Its very LOGICAL that Randys higher resoltion encoder will give much more
control than that of the Appache. Hard to believe anyone doubts that at all.
But, Apache does have the Up/Down function.. which is great for the few
games which require it. So most many may choose to buy both spinners,
such as MameMaster has.
I, like many, am a customer. If I see something I like I buy it. If not,
I dont. I may request it. But if its not made, I will just go and build it
myself. Or buy an origianal arcade part.
If people dont like that Im honest and direct.. that I dont Kiss --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules--..
then thats just too bad for them.
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