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New Product: Ultimarc UltraStik 360 Analog/Digital Mappable Joystick
Xiaou2:
It seemed quite the other way arround. At least, Im pretty much
used to being attacked and insulted..
But anyway, I dont hate anyone.
MDF was stated in one of the older postings.
As for your Stick.. I wasnt even aware there was any developments. I suspect that it
was the same for the others. Also, just because anyone announces thier plans to
make something, doesnt mean that they will get responces right away.
People may not see the post.. think that anyone would compete a proto.. they may not
yet have the cash or cabinet built yet... or do not feel its important to speak up as
that persons going to build it anyways... Etc.
However, after seeing a working proto.. that does get people attention..
(see new push/pull spinner)
And seeing an Obj for sale.. and all the sudden you cant stock enough of them.
I aslo never said "all in one stick'. Meaning, I believe people would pay for a Sini-stick
alone.
As far as I can see.. not everyone can even imagine that such an all in one stick
will function well for all types of games. The throw, responce, feel...ect. are very
important to many classic fans. Still, it may come in handy for something like
a portable bartop.. where control panel space is a concern.
We shall see how these restrictors pan out I guess... But to me, if they are too
much of a pain to switch over, they arnt what Id be interested in.
(proto pics andy?)
"But not for 4-way or 8-way games, which kind of kills 75% of what you could use
these sticks for. I think a lot of people would like to keep the number
of specialized controls to a minimum."
Again, that is not everones point of view. ..want..need.
Many would rather use these as an analog only solution.. keeping thier typical
fighter or 8/4 way switcher installed.
Anyone could use an analog stick to control Star Wars for example.. But any starwars
fan will lift thier nose to this idea. They would rahter drop $300 that they cant
afford into having the correct controller that has flawless accuracry and control.
"I think that the LAST thing you want on thumb controllers is increased resistance
(OUCH). "
Ok, think of it like this... Those little mini-sticks that are on some laptop keyboards
to control the mouse pointer. Yes, I hate them.. but thats mostly because they are
too small, throws too small, uncomfortable, ect.. However, they Illustrate a great
point. You could NEVER control a mouse point that precisely with an analog thumb pad.
The added pressure gives you that added feedback and control that you wouldnt have
if it were too 'loose' and easy to move.
On thumbpad sticks, it wouldnt have to be anywhere near as stiff as those laptop sticks.
Its pivot point also gives you mechanical advantage, so that it doesnt take as much pressure to
operate. The thumbs are actually quite strong however.
"BTW, the same effect you are looking for could easily be duplicated by using weighted curves on the analog signal, so the farther you press, the less change in acceleration, so to get your ship really flying, you have to peg it, but the middle area of the stick is more sensitive. This should be very doable with the internal resolution of these sticks (plenty of data to work with without losing resolution.)"
This really doesnt come close enough.. In fact, it may cause gameplay problems.
As the scale factor may make your characters speed move at strange increments that
you arent intuitively expecting. Sinistar is supposed to only have 3? levels of speed
in each direction.. .but, when will each speed kick in? If the center of the stick contains
too much sensativity, then 2 or 3 speeds may actually be located all in the very center of
the stick. On other games, it may operate differently...
The worst past about most analogs in the springs. Because the center part is where the
pressure in needed to overcome them. This means that your accuracy within the center
is bad - because you are fighting too much force (in two different Axis directions) to control
accurately. This is one reason they added a 'deadzone'. Still, its not the best soultion.
This sticks springs are a bit differnt than a typical analog stick, which may help
in this aspect a bit. But, that will not help the "sliding on ice" effect.
The mapping in reality only causes less overall resolution. As your compensating
for huge motions. In order to do that, you eat up over half the resolution, by making
half the controller basically the same vaules.
If the center is too accureate, then you will have trouble with that because of the
spring tentions as well as leverage issues.. too close to center to be accurate.
If the ends are more sensative, then its more accurate but.. you slide way too
easily from the middle, to the outter edges.
"Come on, ANY controller? "
Look, somoene just made a Major Havok controller! The thing is basically a spinner...
and the game itself can easily be played with a spinner.. and a spinner can be used more
effectively on other spinner and driving wheel games. But.. to those who have
played with a controller like this.. I guess its worth it for them. I cant comment, because
Ive never had that experinece with it.
However, sinistar is a much more popular popular classic.
There are also other 49 way games..
and any analog game should work great with one as well.
1UP:
Hey Xiaou2, I originally said:
--- Quote ---Not that I'm going to make one...but it seems some enterprising individual could make a Sinistar spider that would go on TOP of the stick (using the mounting plate holes) that would be pretty much universal to any stick, including anything Happ or Ultimarc makes--analog or digital. There might need to be different center inserts to make it work, but very doable.
However, I'm not that confident something like that would be a hot seller, which I'm sure is why it doesn't exist. It's a very scecialized item that needs either a dedicated stick or manual installation every time, which kind of minimizes its appeal.
But as for the Ultrastick, I can't wait to get my hands on one! I liked the GP49way combo, but the ability to go full analog is flippin SWEET! The only question is if this can be adapted to Tron usage...heheh...
--- End quote ---
As you can see, I was merely making observations as to why we don't currently have a "Sinistick", and even making suggestions for a solution, i.e. a top mounted spider that would be easier to adapt to various sticks. You didn't see me insulting anyone or any product line. I don't know how I could make that any more clear, but you seem to misunderstand my intentions quite frequently, and I just wish it wasn't so. But I am more interested in exploring the possibilities of Andy's new joystick, so I won't mention this further.
Anyway, back on topic, I'd be interested to see if it would be possible to map the Ultrastick in such a way that a good compromise could be made for Sinistar. I don't think there is any way in the current utility to do analog mapping (at least I haven't had a chance to poke around with it enough). But one could try something like this:
|speed3|sticky|speed2|speed1|center|speed1|speed2|sticky|speed3|
Shown as a cross-cection across the center 9x9 joystick map from left to right. So you would not exactly have a dead zone between the medium speed and highest speed, but just a "sticky zone" that keeps the ship headed in the last direction pressed until the joystick is centered or pressed further.
Anyway, I think it's worth trying.
By the way, the Major Havoc controller is indeed very cool, and I might even be willing to fork over the cash for one if they are still available later this year--although it is a little hard to justify the expense just for the sake of one game, even if it is one of my all time favorites. The spinner works adequately for me, and actually, the first MHavoc game I played may have been a converted Tempest, because I reacall it having a spinner. Worked fine back then too! You might think me hypocritical because I had a Star Wars yoke on my machine, but even that controller has a pretty wide range of use, from a limited range steering wheel to a motorcycle controller, and it works awesome in just about any analog flight sim. It even made a decent T2 controller, it's just a damn stable and precise controller! ;D
Xiaou2:
Well, as far as opinions go.. they can change in time.
I once hated Leaf switches because of the maintenence, and poor performance in
certain games.. and the way leaf buttons seemed to have too much throw.
Years later, after playing certain classics (with leafs) at a freinds place, i realized how
much better they were with these types of games. Completely changed how I
wanted my control panels to be set up.
I suspect after playing with a stick simular to what I had built.. your views
would probably change for this 'all in one' idea instead of a dedicated
solution.
Im also tempted to get a Havok Controller. Looks pretty badass. If only it were
arround the 100$ mark.. it would be so much easier to swallow. Maybe I can construct
one myself.. hehe
dirt:
this may be a dumb question but i didn't understand it completely. do you have to reload the right mapping every time you switch to a game that requires it or is it done automaticly after you load all the files into it? what i am getting at is what would i have to do if i just played donkey kong then i decied to play street fighter. do i just pick the game and go or is there some process i have to follow between games.btw as if you cant tell i am not a techy kinda guy some please dumb it WAY down.
Minwah:
--- Quote from: dirt on July 01, 2006, 06:58:45 pm ---this may be a dumb question but i didn't understand it completely. do you have to reload the right mapping every time you switch to a game that requires it or is it done automaticly after you load all the files into it? what i am getting at is what would i have to do if i just played donkey kong then i decied to play street fighter. do i just pick the game and go or is there some process i have to follow between games.btw as if you cant tell i am not a techy kinda guy some please dumb it WAY down.
--- End quote ---
If I understand correctly, when you program the stick it will stay programmed that way until you program it otherwise. In your example this would mean you need to program the stick back to 8-way after playing Donkey Kong in 4-way mode. Most people will use a FE along with a handful (or more) maps to do the programming automatically...how this is achieved depends on which FE and also what maps you want to use.
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