Main > Software Forum

prettiest front end?

<< < (9/13) > >>

headkaze:
3D Arcade is very impressive, but I'm not sure it's where every FE is heading. If everyone wanted a complete 3d environment for thier FE everyone would be using 3D Arcade. The thing is, I think the majority of people want a text list and graphics but done in Direct 3D/Open GL environment taking advantage of 3D acceleration and hardware effects. Like the original post asks about a FE like the XBox dashboards available.

For "skinning" in 3D Arcade I would expect you would need a 3D software like Studio Max or Lightwave rather than a custom written Theme Editor.


--- Quote ---Yes, you 're right.  And if you want make a good editor it consume more time than making the FE itself.
--- End quote ---

Which is why I took on writing the Theme Editor for GameEx myself, to take the pressure off Tom. There is alot of work involved in writing a Theme Editor, as you say, and to do it right it takes valuable time away from the coding of the FE. The GameEx Theme Editor is still lacking in many areas but I've only just finished version 1.2. Shame we don't have more coders offering to help with things like this for FE developers. But then again, I'm suprised there are not more artists making skins for FE's. Perhaps people are too busy playing their cabs? :)

Anyway, check out a video of the XBox 360 Dashboard. Some of these effects are quite basic but are effective. I would like to see a FE with this sort of quality in terms of graphics and effects. And to be honest, it's not difficult to do, I just think alot of current FE's are written using older technologies (excluding 3D Arcade which is probably written in C++ with Open GL) like VB6 (MameWah), GDI (Atomic FE) and even Direct Draw (GameEx) which means writing using these new technologies like DirectX 9/10 will mean a complete re-write of the display code. Which really means a complete re-write of the entire FE. But I do expect the next gen of scratch written FE's to be in this vein.


)p(:
I think it might be useful to explain how cylarcade actually works as shown in the c64 avi. ( ) I still think it was one of my best ideas in 3darcade and maybe it can inspire someone.

In the cylarcade interface models are placed in a circle with the camera facing towards them. When the camera rotates a new model is added in the direction the camera is rotated and removed from the other side. This way the user can rotate indefinitely through any size gamelist.

I got the idea from the 19th century 360 degree panorama's where you stand in the middle inside a building in the shape of cylinder and look towards the wall.

See http://www.panorama-mesdag.nl

This resulted in:
http://www.i-modernist.com/temp/cylarcadeupdate.jpg
(The fixed model in the center is optional ;) )

As you can see the translation in 3darcade is fairly exact with the painting replaced with an animated texture and the cabinets placed in front of it. By dynamically replacing the models as described above the panorama becomes in essence endless.

But this is just the start! From the start I envisioned it to be a multipurpose interface that could replace the normal text listbox type interface. The key is to be able to change the diameter of the circle, the position of the camera in relation to the circle, the spacing and orientation of the models on the circle. With this in place you can make skins that range from a complete 3d effect like the one shown above, the semi 3d effect of the diskettes in the c64 skin, the price wheels, the completely flat skins like a ultracade wheel like look (the cylarcade interface actually predates it!) to the 100% flat scrolling marquees which I use to select gamelists in the default skin of 3darcade. The latter could even mimic a standard listbox by using the on the fly texture creation feature from a text string.
See for example pics:
http://3darcade.mameworld.net/frontend/defaultskin.html
http://3darcade.mameworld.net/skins/skins.htm

The problem becomes when designing a userfriendly gui for something like this. You will need to be able to interactively change; the camera position, spacing of the models on the circle, orientate the models, etc. etc. and get a visual cue how the end result will look like...as you might understand by now...I have not even attempted to come up with a solution for that...

I am not sure if there is a future for an interface like this. With this amount of flexibility,  probably not! But at least it was a very interesting experiment and a lot of fun doing :)


peter

youki:

--- Quote ---GDI (Atomic FE)
--- End quote ---

I don't use GDI for Atomic  ,  AtomicFE (the engine) is written in Visual C++  using DirectX/DirectDraw version 7.  That's a choice i did , because i wanted AtomicFE works on the huge amount of configuration as well modern that oldest.

And i wanted that it works with standard component provided with the os , no need to install additional thing.
The main target was XP.  On XP directx 7 is installed on all version.


--- Quote ---writing using these new technologies like DirectX 9/10 will mean a complete re-write of the display code. Which really means a complete re-write of the entire FE.
--- End quote ---

Wrong, in the case of AtomicFe ,  I will just have to rewrite few primitive of my graphic engine. And nothing to change in Atomic specific code. That 's the power of object oriented programming!  ;)

With AtomicFE , you will have still lot of  (good i hope) suprise in the future...   ;)







headkaze:
Sorry youki, don't know what gave me the impression it was using GDI. Anyway, my point with GameEx is the same, Direct Draw is an old technology. Direct 3D is the way to go, I'm sure you will agree. It's basically a matter of replacing your surfaces with sprites. Not difficult by any means. I really like your scripted themes, but they can be awful slow. If you optimize that feature, it could definately be a more useful feature. Although, again creating themes could be difficult for a non-programmer unless there is a whole editor with scripting - which is very hard to write IMHO. I guess the way around that is to write some default scripts yourself and allow user's to adjust them.

As for 3D Arcade, I love these ideas that 3D Arcade is using, in fact some of the concepts you describe are what I'm tackling on a project of my own, so it's nice to see them in visual terms. I think 3D Arcade is really great, including the Ultracade wheel and other effects. But as for creating an editor for a program like this, the only way to do it is like Doom 3 - the game *is* the editor, or in this case, the FE is the editor. So you would be within the FE, select "Edit Theme" then have options to select the type of view - cyclic wheel using images, animated textures, 3d models, marquee's etc. then select the view type - infinite cylinder, vertical, sideways etc, then perhaps a background effect eg. radial blur like the XBox 360 dashboard background effect or a wavy mesh effect like MCE background. Then you have the various options of spacing between objects, orientation etc. and as you adjust these options (using keys, joystick or buttons - whatever) the effect can be seen live on your list. This is the only practical way I could see an editor being made for such a FE. But either way, 3D Arcade is still very impressive work.

tspeirs:
I have to agree with Youki a little, in that a rewrite of the display code does not mean a complete rewrite of the entire front end. In the case of GameEx, since its written in .net the support for Vista graphics is availalable to me now if I wanted to start now, and at the least I am going to take a look now.
I personally cant wait for Vista, WinFX, Avalon and DirectX10, when I can start pimping the graphics in the beast! From what I can tell its going to make the whole process much easier as the whole OS runs on Direct3D, and .net developers get the biggest and best support from MS. I think yourll see a lot more from GameEx too, in terms of visuals, while maintaining a host of features, and ease of use, and allowing me to code and deliver things in rapid time due to .net. The thing to remember for FE developers though, is that I forsee with Vista a whole bunch of new front ends. The display coding, is going to be as fast as it is now in the leading front ends, but going to more slick, and will be done with the ease of writing a vb6 windows form application. I think as well as visuals, UI is important, and I really like the way GameEx does this now, I believe usability should always come over more important than visuals, skinning, theming etc, and maybe thats why more people tend to use GameEx, Mamewaht, Atomic etc than 3D Arcade, which pisses over us in terms of graphics. Because I like the UI in GameEx, I may even decide to code a new front end for DirectX10, perhaps the XBox stuff is the way to go.

I do agree with you Headkaze on where you see the development and future going as you can see from above, an I am wanting it like woody alan after five red bulls, and Im deffinitly not put off by the work involved.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

Go to full version