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MAME 104u5 out - adds multiple mice
krick:
--- Quote from: jcrouse on March 15, 2006, 02:05:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: krick on March 15, 2006, 02:00:18 pm ---As an amusing (at least to me) side note, I loathe XP and refuse to use it on my own computers
--- End quote ---
I am curious why and what you do use.
--- End quote ---
I use Windows 2000 + Unofficial Service Pack 5.1 on my non-MAME computers and
I use Windows 98SE + Unofficial 98SE Service Pack 2.1a on my dedicated MAME machine.
For general use, Windows 2000 is completely adequate for my needs. There's nothing I do that justifies an upgrade to XP.
There's several things I don't like about Windows XP vs 2000. First and foremost is product activation. I do a LOT of hardware upgrading in my household. I'd really rather not have to call Microsoft every time I do a motherboard upgrade. Another thing I don't like is the "clown car" color scheme and "improved" UI. I know that I can turn it off but I don't really see why they did it at all since it looks awful.
For a dedicated MAME computer, I think XP is overkill. I prefer 98SE because of the much lower resource overhead. Plus, I find 98SE much easier to customize and tweak for optimal MAME cabinet use.
Of course, 98SE has some limitations...
max 120GB drive size, max 1GB memory, no dual core or hyperthreading support, no PCI express support, no chipset drivers on some chipsets like nForce 4, etc...
But for a MAME cabinet using an ArcadeVGA card, none of these problems really affect me.
DOS and Linux are also appealing alternatives to 98SE that each have their own particular strengths and weaknesses.
I'm sure that people will disagree with my opinion on XP and that's fine. It's just my opinion. Everyone is free to use whatever they think is best for their situation.
jcrouse:
--- Quote from: krick on March 15, 2006, 02:38:40 pm ---Another thing I don't like is the "clown car" color scheme and "improved" UI. I know that I can turn it off but I don't really see why they did it at all since it looks awful.
--- End quote ---
We politely refer to that as the "Fisher-Price" interface. Very appropriate.
John
screaming:
Who's polite?
u_rebelscum:
Derrick, a BIG thanks for doing the work I was too lazy buzy to try to do! ;) (Sounds like I hate RawInput as much as you do.) And you came up with probably the best solution to the remapping problem with sysmouse.
As far as multiple lightguns go, here's my ~2 year old info on it on actlab lightguns (if you need it): directX directInput on winME can do lightguns in both relative and absolute mode with the original actlab USB & TV lightguns. Some games in mame seem to be be accurate in rel mode, other in abs mode. Of course, this was back when mame's core stored the analog info in ~256 values (-128 to 128), unlike the current 128K.
(Ignoring system mouse, of course) Abs mode had a ~0-64k range but rel had a max delta of ~[+-]32k, as printed to screen in test code. However, I had to do some hacks so that (I think) the code was treating the rel mode as if it had a [+-]64k delta, or mame core could store 128 values (-64 to 64 delta); none of the relative stuff made sense to me, but that's what worked.
As you probably know, Jake did virtually all the rawInput code used in Analog+, but I know enough that it used relative mode in the multiple lightgun w/ rawInput function, and translated the input to a -128 to 128 delta and pasted to the core delta.
So MameAnalog+ had four ways to do multiple lightguns: the official mame win32 dual lightgun way, directInput relative way, directInput absolute way, and RI relative way. As I said, some games were more accurate across the whole sceen and over short distances with absolute, others with relative directInput. I hope the core changes since than will let you use one or the other directInput mode, and you kill the current win32 API way.
I like the new core analog input stuff added since 0.84, and they look much better suited for multiple lightgun support than the old way; I hope you prove me right.
If you need any more info, or a loan of a pair of old actlab USB, old actlab TV, or the new EMI guns, let me know. I'll probably be slow in response, though. (My CRT monitor is in the shop, so I can't test the actlab guns myself ATM.)
Oh, and about Howard: he's abrasive and doesn't know it all the time. It's not unique to him; you probably heard of all the studies on email and messaging that show that 75%-90% of the emails/messages/posts do not read as the writer expected the reader to see it. But Howard's very, umm... Howard.
u_rebelscum:
All right guys who see where Howard's coming from... What is(are) his point(s)?
I see two:
He wants a name instead of a mouse number, and that saved to cfg & ctrlr files.
He wants the system mouse.
Am I missing any others?
Here's my 2 cents on these two points, starting from the the general, going to the latter issue, then the former. (Mind that I very much see this from Derrick's view because I've been through this before, abit years ago.)
Both issues are about playability and user interface. You know what that means: not important to mame's goal.
The code was written by one person, Derrick, based on Jake's code. Not by "MameDev" as a whole.
I will not address the reasons Howard put forward, as Derrick addressed them already.
System Mouse:
In hindsight, I made a bad choice years ago and should have only allowed sysmouse with singlemouse enabled (or multiplemice disabled, depending on which analog+ version). The support I had to give to the problems people had because of it, the limited times (aka never) that a person should use sysmouse & another mouse at the same time, the ugly code used because of sysmouse... yech. IMO, the only time sysmouse should be used is if/when mame is run with a singlemouse option enabled.
Until then, a ctrlr file with all mouse inputs (dial, trackball, and buttons) set to include mouse1 or mouse2 or mouse3 or .... or mouse8 will do the trick fine. This does have some limits that with a sysmouse would not, but not very many, and is way more flexible. (I prefer flexibility over ease, others might feel different.)
Does mame NEED sysmouse or, IMO better, a single mouse option? No, but a single mouse option would be extra frosting on the cake. Sysmouse included while multiple mousing should be avoided.
Mouse Name:
I don't think this is a mouse issue. I think this is a joystick AND mouse issue in the current mame (joystick since 0.84).
Mame's cfg & ctrlr files save both joystick & mouse with numbers, not their names.
Both mouse & joy have renumbering problems with two devices that claim to be the exact same device (due to USB boot-time race conditions, not mame).
Both would have naming numbering problems with any two devices that share the same name.
(In winXP) Both can use any port-type device (USB, PS/2, gameport, serial, ect).
(In winXP) Joysticks can have one (1) "primary" joystick, the others number in whatever way windows number them. Mice can't set a primary mouse, but otherwise they're the same. (Even more so, from what I hear, since setting primary joystick doesn't aways work for everyone.)
Complaining that the new rawInput code doesn't do more than mame's older-but-still-used joystick code misses the real problem. Especially since the new rawInput code makes each mouse look to a user almost like a joystick. More especially since rawInput makes names very very hard, compared to directInput & joysticks. IMO, both the joystick and the mouse naming problem should be addressed together (if possible).
To sum up my 2 cents:
"No sysmouse" has a simple work around, the "no mouse name" shouldn't be even looked at by itself but together with the related joystick issue.
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