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SlikStik Tornado Spinner News

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Kremmit:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 08:58:41 am ---Not sure - That's what Christian implied, but I would think the spinner firmware might know that 260 pulses equal one rotation, or 80 pulses equal one rotation, etc.  Perhaps RandyT could comment on this.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 08:58:41 am ---What if a new MAME derivative (are you listening, MikeQ - PowerMAME) had an .ini variable for number of spinner teeth (or spinner ratio) - then if you had a TurboTwist, you set this to 130, if you had an Arkanoid original spinner, you set it to 476, a pole position, you set it to 24.  Then if MAME saw a non-zero value for this, it recalculated the sensitivity in each game since it knew what type of spinner you had on your panel.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 09:21:53 am ---I would like confirmation from someone like RandyT or Urebel or Haze that I am understanding it correctly, and then I can add it to the PowerMAME Wiki (and probably PM MikeQ).

--- End quote ---

I can confirm from my testing that the spinner hardware does not know how many teeth equal one rotation.  The OptiWiz, OptiPac, SlikStik interface, MouseHack, or whatever just counts teeth.  (Well, it's more complicated than that, but it'll do for our purposes.)  The number of teeth on the wheel definately changes the amount of on-screen rotation you get from one turn of the knob.  I had to use very different analog sensetivity settings with my DOT spinner than I did with my Blasteroids spinner to get the same amount of movement on-screen.  I was using the first wave of Tempest to test this.

What I don't know, is whether or not the sensetivity settings can be determined directly from the number of encoder teeth.  In theory, this works fine, but different PC configurations, versions of Windows, MAME, mouse drivers and other differences between individual systems might make the magic number different for every user.  But PowerMAME might be able to at least "even up" the differences between whichever spinner the user has and the game they're trying to play- leaving only a global analog sensetivity setting to tweak, rather than having to tweak each game. 

Warborg:

--- Quote from: deefish on March 01, 2006, 10:21:51 am ---
--- Quote from: Warborg on February 28, 2006, 09:22:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: SlikStik Christian on February 28, 2006, 04:23:53 pm ---Ignorance seems to be in abundance here.

His technical posts mean nothing but mumbo jumbo; the facts are the facts regardless of big technical words that might amaze some people.

--- End quote ---

Ah hahhaha...  Way to go, buddy...  Way to go... 

You basically insult the population of this forum by calling us ignorant, and then imply how we'll mindlessly be impressed by a shiny bauble.

I thought at one time (prior to your initial attack) I MIGHT order one of your knobs, even with the inflated shipping costs, but now I think I'd just rather impale a bagel on the spinner shaft and see how that works...

--- End quote ---


Deer uggg or she person,

Durrrrrrrrr eeeeeooorr......me likey shiny bauble.......BYOAC my friend......pretty shiny spinning knobby...... me likey this hobby durrrrr.....what mean Arkanoid?? me use real bat and ball, glass and bright tube thingy no like smash....

KrUnK no have appetite now. head throb like volcano.

two bad men must go in death arena, fight out difference, two uggs enter only one ugg leave!!

sorely mine,
KrUnK FoUnDeRsOn



--- End quote ---

I'm just dizzy after reading this...  Dizzy, I tell you.

Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: Kremmit on March 01, 2006, 11:13:57 am ---
--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 08:58:41 am ---Not sure - That's what Christian implied, but I would think the spinner firmware might know that 260 pulses equal one rotation, or 80 pulses equal one rotation, etc.  Perhaps RandyT could comment on this.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 08:58:41 am ---What if a new MAME derivative (are you listening, MikeQ - PowerMAME) had an .ini variable for number of spinner teeth (or spinner ratio) - then if you had a TurboTwist, you set this to 130, if you had an Arkanoid original spinner, you set it to 476, a pole position, you set it to 24.  Then if MAME saw a non-zero value for this, it recalculated the sensitivity in each game since it knew what type of spinner you had on your panel.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 09:21:53 am ---I would like confirmation from someone like RandyT or Urebel or Haze that I am understanding it correctly, and then I can add it to the PowerMAME Wiki (and probably PM MikeQ).

--- End quote ---

I can confirm from my testing that the spinner hardware does not know how many teeth equal one rotation.  The OptiWiz, OptiPac, SlikStik interface, MouseHack, or whatever just counts teeth.  (Well, it's more complicated than that, but it'll do for our purposes.)  The number of teeth on the wheel definately changes the amount of on-screen rotation you get from one turn of the knob.  I had to use very different analog sensetivity settings with my DOT spinner than I did with my Blasteroids spinner to get the same amount of movement on-screen.  I was using the first wave of Tempest to test this.

What I don't know, is whether or not the sensetivity settings can be determined directly from the number of encoder teeth.  In theory, this works fine, but different PC configurations, versions of Windows, MAME, mouse drivers and other differences between individual systems might make the magic number different for every user.  But PowerMAME might be able to at least "even up" the differences between whichever spinner the user has and the game they're trying to play- leaving only a global analog sensetivity setting to tweak, rather than having to tweak each game. 

--- End quote ---
Okay - so we've confirmed that number of teeth affects motion on-screen, and RandyT told me this:

--- Quote ---Tempest:  On the TurboTwist, 3 spins [per rotation] on the first tube is between 16% and 17% [sensitivity].  This is particularly interesting, as the original Tempest spinner had
72 CPR.  This means that there isn't a direct correlation between the percentage of sensitivity in MAME and the number of teeth on the spinner.
If there were, it should be at about 55%.  So either there are more unused
positions in the ROM driver, or something else is out of whack.

--- End quote ---
I suspect we may have several fixes for PowerMAME (Similar to what we have with Rotary Joysticks), where perhaps the MAMEdev that wrote the driver just made it work well with whatever mouse he was using, so the first change is to make the game accurate for the original hardware, the second fix is to add an ini variable for number of encoder teeth, and the final step is to optimize the drivers based on the new ini variable.   

Silver:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 01, 2006, 12:28:56 pm ---... where perhaps the MAMEdev that wrote the driver just made it work well with whatever mouse he was using, so the first change is to make the game accurate for the original hardware, the second fix is to add an ini variable for number of encoder teeth, and the final step is to optimize the drivers based on the new ini variable.   

--- End quote ---

There could be quite a few factors to work through here - obviously the windows mouse settings (acceleration etc...) in windows control panel (for windows systems). But do different mouse drivers deal with the signals differently? inbuilt scaling? Would using an optipac or optiwhiz  be different?

RobotronNut:

--- Quote from: Silver on March 01, 2006, 01:17:45 pm ---There could be quite a few factors to work through here - obviously the windows mouse settings (acceleration etc...) in windows control panel (for windows systems). But do different mouse drivers deal with the signals differently? inbuilt scaling? Would using an optipac or optiwhiz  be different?

--- End quote ---

is there a standard set of mouse driver settings in windows xp that work best with mame? (i'm using a tornado spinner)

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