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New Product: TurboTwist

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Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: RandyT on February 21, 2006, 08:49:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: saint on February 21, 2006, 07:39:28 pm ---How hard/expensive to switch that to a jumper so that people could easily switch around at will?

--- End quote ---

The problem is board space.  There are two 1/2" wide areas on the board where there can be no thru-components so only the top surface is available.  It is in one of these areas that the axis configuration pads are located.  So the answer is, "very."

However, if one were so inclined, they could attach wires to the board at the pads and hook in a switch.  But I would expect that re-configuration would be done seldom enough that a switch would be a bit of an overkill.

FWIW, I've changed the axis about 5 times on my test unit during development and it took less than 30 seconds each time.

For those who find this type of solder-less configuration desireable for experimentation, or whathaveyou, you may wish to wait until I get the "slave" spinner option up at the store.  It will basically be a brain-less version of the spinner intended for connection to another TurboTwist with a free axis or an Opti-Wiz.  You can try it with other optical interfaces as well, but there is so much data being pumped by the spinner, acceptable results won't be guaranteed on anything other than one of our interfaces.

In any event, you could then connect the "brain-less" spinner to an Opti-Wiz and have it use any axis you want based on the pins you attach it to. This, of course, would be a more expensive way to do this kind of thing, but it's an option.

RandyT

--- End quote ---
Mainly directed to RandyT:

Just to throw out some ideas here -
I ASSuME the slave version of the board will not include a microprocessor, correct?

It seems hard for me to tell without owning an actual board, but I did review this thread and the Opti-Wiz thread before posting.

I think I see how it is being configured, but maybe not exactly WHY?

From what I can tell, there are six pairs of bridges on the rear (USB connector side) of the board with each group of pairs labelled X, Y, and Z.  On the Turbo-Twist picture at GGG, it appears that two solder drops are connecting the bridges corresponding to X and to change the axis, one would remove these drops and close the bridges corresponding to Y or Z.

Comment 1 - It would seem that you could make the board with a two-pin header in place of the solder "bridge" pads.  The you could just connect a pair of jumpers to the corresponding pins and accomplish the same thing without needing to solder/desolder.  (I realize this might add more to the cost and labor required to produce the board than it was worth for the benefit received).  I also realize that perhaps this is what Randy meant about the 1/2 inch area that you can't have thru components, so these might need to be surface mount headers (if there is such a thing), or they might need to go through the board, be soldered from the back, and then be insulated to prevent them shorting out against the TurboTwist frame.

Comment 2 - I am not exactly sure how these pads work with the rest of the board - but it would seem like you might be able to bypass the solder pads altogether.  From the Opti-Wiz thread, I ASSuME you are adding some opto-switches and a resistor to the Opti-Wiz to make the PCB for the Turbo-Twist, and I ASSuME the added components are similar to a Happ optic board.   And I think when it comes down to it, there are only two wires from the Happ Optic board that connect to the lower header on the Opti-Wiz.  Would it be possible to run the added components to a two-pin header possibly located somewhere other than the solder bridges, leave the bridges open, and then use a jumper wire to connect the new header to the desired existing two-pin header at the bottom of the TurboTwist PCB?

I'm not saying any of these changes are required, and if RandyT wants to ignore them b/c the product works fine for the majority of users as-is, I agree with that.  Also, all of this was basically stated in other threads, but if it or explaining it steps on proprietary information issues, I understand that as well. . .

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on February 22, 2006, 11:06:38 am ---I ASSuME the slave version of the board will not include a microprocessor, correct?

--- End quote ---

That is correct.  The slave board will basically be a bare board with opto-switches, a resistor and a 4 pin header.  Ground, +5v, XA and XB.


--- Quote ---From what I can tell, there are six pairs of bridges on the rear (USB connector side) of the board with each group of pairs labelled X, Y, and Z.  On the Turbo-Twist picture at GGG, it appears that two solder drops are connecting the bridges corresponding to X and to change the axis, one would remove these drops and close the bridges corresponding to Y or Z.

--- End quote ---

That is also correct.


--- Quote ---Comment 1 - It would seem that you could make the board with a two-pin header in place of the solder "bridge" pads.  The you could just connect a pair of jumpers to the corresponding pins and accomplish the same thing without needing to solder/desolder.  (I realize this might add more to the cost and labor required to produce the board than it was worth for the benefit received).  I also realize that perhaps this is what Randy meant about the 1/2 inch area that you can't have thru components, so these might need to be surface mount headers (if there is such a thing), or they might need to go through the board, be soldered from the back, and then be insulated to prevent them shorting out against the TurboTwist frame.

--- End quote ---

These units are already very labor intensive.  Every part has a cost associated with it, and it only begins with the purchase price.  If I calculated the time it takes to do these from start to finish, I would probably kick myself for offering them at the current price. 

But cost isn't the only reason.  There can be absolutely nothing between the boards and the frame.  An optical arrangement with this kind of resolution allows for very little error in positioning.  The variable distance created by residual solder would be a nightmare to account for.


--- Quote ---Comment 2 - I am not exactly sure how these pads work with the rest of the board - but it would seem like you might be able to bypass the solder pads altogether.  From the Opti-Wiz thread, I ASSuME you are adding some opto-switches and a resistor to the Opti-Wiz to make the PCB for the Turbo-Twist, and I ASSuME the added components are similar to a Happ optic board.   And I think when it comes down to it, there are only two wires from the Happ Optic board that connect to the lower header on the Opti-Wiz.  Would it be possible to run the added components to a two-pin header possibly located somewhere other than the solder bridges, leave the bridges open, and then use a jumper wire to connect the new header to the desired existing two-pin header at the bottom of the TurboTwist PCB?

--- End quote ---

I can talk any user through getting the results they want from the device if they have "special needs." 

There are many ways to skin the same proverbial cat, but none of them are free.  They all have costs associated with them in board space, parts cost and labor.  I already came in $10 higher than I projected because I chose to bump up the quality on a couple of the components.  These were functional improvements that actually added value to the product, not convenience frills. 

And as you stated, none of what is being discussed is required, nor does it's absence make the product any less functional.   Honestly,. these types of discussions are akin to suggesting to IL that their "Competition" joysticks should have had a switch on them to make them 4/8 way switchable.  Anyone done that lately? :)

There's something that just goes against my grain when it comes to adding a feature that very few people will consider important, yet everyone pays more for.  I'd rather use that capital to improve the core functionality of the device and keep the cost low, something that everyone who uses it will benefit from.

But that's just me :)

RandyT

19rjs99:
Only 1 left on the web site right now... I already ordered mine  ;)

Can wait for some knob options Randy.

Bob

Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: RandyT on February 22, 2006, 04:22:27 pm ---Honestly,. these types of discussions are akin to suggesting to IL that their "Competition" joysticks should have had a switch on them to make them 4/8 way switchable.  Anyone done that lately? :)

--- End quote ---
Seems like you did with the Prodigy (not based on the Comp's, though.)  And they listened to someone complaining about it when they came out with the stick that became the T-Stick.   ;)

--- Quote ---There's something that just goes against my grain when it comes to adding a feature that very few people will consider important, yet everyone pays more for.  I'd rather use that capital to improve the core functionality of the device and keep the cost low, something that everyone who uses it will benefit from.

--- End quote ---
Point taken - And much appreciated!!!  8)

RandyT:

Ok, the first 9 I had available are gone!!  The last of them shipped yesterday.

I'll be working on the next batch over the weekend and hopefully have some more available by early next week.

Depending on the work load of my machinist, these are liable to be the last ones available for a week or two.  But who knows, he may surprise me.

I'll keep everyone updated.

RandyT

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