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CoinDrop v1.3 Released - Now you can insert coins from your front-end!
Grasshopper:
--- Quote from: SirPoonga on December 28, 2005, 02:44:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Grasshopper on December 28, 2005, 01:37:06 pm ---Anyway, I've never really bought into the idea that MAME is solely a "documentation project". Obviously that's part of it but I find it hard to believe that the MAMEDEVS don't also want to play the games. I think they stress the documentation side of MAME to try and give themselves some legal cover in the unlikely event they get sued at some point.
--- End quote ---
This is a narrow minded idea. Just because it can play games doesn't mean that is its main purpose. There's plenty of software examples of this where the main purpose of the software is not the popular use.
If mame was about playing games it would be more like the kawaks, nebula, zinc, modeller, viva nonno, etc.. emulators. It would take advantage of computer's hardware. Mame emulates EVERYTHING, including the graphics engine the arcade game used. Go ahead, take zinc and play a game like strider 2 on a PIII 500, now play it in mame. Unplayable in mame at that speed. You can do the same with neogeo games. Try playing a neogeo game in mame on a PIII 500, barely get full frame rate. Now run kawaks or neoragex. There are many other examples where they could make it much more player friendly.
People with opinions like yours usually don't realize there are other arcade emulators out there that are much better for playing the games. It's because of this that retrocade stopped. Since mame is so popular now people didn't want to contribute to retrocade. But retrocade can run the games it supported better than mame (it didn't need a big computer to play them).
Anyway, here's comments that Haze (http://haze.mameworld.info/) has made on this board. Haze controlled the mame project for the last couple of years. He still develops but I think Aaron Giles is now who determines new releases.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=36710.msg337849#msg337849
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg337151#msg337151
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37734.msg338799#msg338799
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37779.msg340653#msg340653
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38190.msg346650#msg346650
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=38854.msg352453#msg352453
--- End quote ---
The reason that MAME is slower than other emulators is simply because the Mamedevs have focused on accuracy and portability (both things I approve of incidentally). But that doesn't mean that MAME is solely a documentation project. It would have been perfectly possible for the Mamedevs to "document" the games hardware without creating a fully functional emulator. There are many many ways they could have crippled MAME in order to make it unsuitable for use in a commercial environment. For example they could, as someone else here suggested, have set all games to always run on freeplay.
All emulators are documentation projects, even the ones optimised for current hardware. But ultimately the whole raison d'etre of any emulator is to enable the games to continue to be played. Calling MAME a "documentation project" doesn't change its legal or moral status in any way whatsoever.
I've read all of Haze's comments you linked to and I fully understand and respect his position. If he was the only person involved with MAME then his comments might, just might, be justification for headcaze to withdraw his program. But it's not that black and white. What about the other developers who have chosen not to comment? Maybe they're not even in a position to speak freely anymore after having "negotiated" with Foley. What about the many people who have dumped ROMs, reported bugs etc? Don't they have a stake in the project?
Even if most of the people involved with MAME feel the same way as Haze, it's still not a black and white issue because it's possible that headcaze's program could used with other emulators. Who knows, maybe it could even be used with some of the legal game compilations that are available. What I find particularly intriguing is the possibility that, with a little modification, the program could be used to add coin drop functionality to modern games or emulators that don't currently have that facility such as console emulators. So this is not just a MAME issue. Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for what the Mamedevs have done for this hobby and their views should be accorded a lot of weight because of that. But they don't own the entire retro-gaming scene and they certainly shouldn't be in a position to veto programs written by other people.
According to the logic of some people here, perhaps we shouldn't have front ends at all because they are not absolutely necessary. And even without coin drop functionality they still make life easier for pirates.
At the end of the day everyone is entitled to their opinions and I can see both sides of this argument. But what disappoints me is seeing certain people here (who almost certainly have a shed-load of illegally acquired roms on their hard drive) taking a holier than thou attitude and passing judgement on others. Headcaze has gone to the time and trouble of writing a program that potentially makes our hobby more pleasurable. Even those people who feel strongly about the piracy issue should recognise this.
dax:
--- Quote from: Crazy Cooter on December 29, 2005, 06:33:28 pm ---
--- Quote ---...some of these OS projects
--- End quote ---
MAME is not open source.
--- End quote ---
Huh?
--- Quote from: Crazy Cooter on December 29, 2005, 06:33:28 pm ---
--- Quote ---code that does not violate the licensing terms
--- End quote ---
The MAMEdevs have said they do not want to see this kind of app.
--- End quote ---
That's kind of ambiguous. In the same spirit, let it be known that I am saying I do not want to see war, poverty or famine on this planet.
Show me where it says in the license that someone can't run another piece of software on the same computer where MAME is running. Then and only then would your argument have any relevancy.
From what I gather, this program basically sits resident and messes with the keyboard buffer. If the MAME developers don't like it, they have about as much right to stop it as I do calling President Bush and demanding that he step down for being a crappy president. Come to think of it, I believe I have more right to perform the latter than I would, if I were a MAME developer, to have any authority to stop the use of this add-on program.
--- Quote from: Crazy Cooter on December 29, 2005, 06:33:28 pm ---
--- Quote ---There are a hundred sites that would host the files for FREE without engaging the user in some sort of commercial solicitation.
--- End quote ---
MAME32 is available all over the place for "free" download if you do not want to go through fileplanet (I personally hate fileplanet for reasons similar to yours).
--- End quote ---
We agree on something at least.
Anyway, the "official download site" of this type of project is important. It shouldn't be in bed with some sleazebag bandwidth vending machine like fileplanet. It looks bad for MAME to even be associated with operations like that.
--- Quote from: Necro on December 29, 2005, 02:30:11 am ---Napsters downfall was because the "bad" far outweighed the "good". I would like to have this program as well, but the "bad" FAR outweighs the "good". It lends zero to the goal of the MAME project (I know some disagree with the legitimacy of said goal), and gives more reason AND makes it easier to make a con-cabinet.
I just don't see the sense in offering software where you might get sued for coding it (ala napster).
--- End quote ---
Are you kidding? MAME could get shut down for almost the exact same reasons as Napster got shut down. The program exists almost exclusively to facilitate copyright infringement. Period. The only reason MAME still exists is because: a) It's not that well known in mainstream, b) the program is not appearing to make a dent in the revenue of any influential corporation. However, it is just a matter of time... All we need is for CNN to run some story on how MAME is infringing upon xBox or Playstation profits and there will be some sort of lobbyist-motivated congressional hearing or other media circus and the whole deal with go *poof* like Napster.
Let's not be so idealistic that we don't see the forest through the trees here.
Roughy:
So, to summarize:
Some people find CoinDrop to be a good, useful program for their own personal usage.
Some people find CoinDrop to be not so good because of the potential for Commercial (mis)Use.
Cool.
Someone point me to the next poo-flinging contest, please. :-)
dax:
You forgot:
Some people have double standards, some don't.
Some people seem to think that using unlicensed roms is perfectly ok, but get all uppity at the idea someone might use the software for commercial purposes, which is just as much a violation of the copyright.
Where I come from, that's called hypocritical.
markrvp:
Dax = Subzero.
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