Pinball/Pinmame proof of concept "cab"...

[Rook3]

I've been itching to build a dedicated Visual Pinball/Pinmame cabinet, but I'm really against adding extra buttons to allow the "nudge" movement.

So, I figured, why don't I make a mock up to see if I can engineer a buttonless nudge system.

Had half a sheet of scrap MDF from some kitchen work, so it became the victi... I mean Volunteer.

Total cost in this project thus far is about $5.50, the cost of a darn 1 1/8" spade bit. You'd think I'd have something on hand that would work, but noooooooo.

Anyhoo, This was about 4-6 hours work from start to finish. Still have to completely figure out the nudge mechanism. I'm thinking of "free floating" the controls and having an internal switch assembly to register the nudges.







Russ

[Sinner]

Try taking a look at this...

http://arcadecontrols.com/arcade_vdt.shtml

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=35969.0

[melarky]

what are you using for the front plunger?  Does that actually activate a switch?  I have through about making a pinmame machine, but want to be able to use a real plunger with it.  Is there a way to make a plunger that works really well with pinmame?

[unclet]

If I remember correctly (which I might not be), the plunger in Visual Pinball is a button and the long the button is pressed down, then the farther it simulates a plunger being pulled back.   When the button is released (ie: no long pressed), then the plunger hits the ball.

If this is correct, then uses a real plunger does not seem it would be to difficult.  Basically, when the plunger is pulled backwards let it activate a microswitch.   Keep pulling the plunger backwards keep the microswitch activated long and long.  When the plunger is released then this would result in microswitch no long be activated.    This should work well for Visual Pinball.

[quarterstringer]

Your VP cabinet is looking great. Are you going to have a lockdown bar and apron too? I'll be interested in how you'll do the nudges, as I haven't added nudge controls to mine yet.

what are you using for the front plunger?

[Effayy]

Your VP cabinet is looking great. Are you going to have a lockdown bar and apron too? I'll be interested in how you'll do the nudges, as I haven't added nudge controls to mine yet.

what are you using for the front plunger?

[hyiu]

well.... after reading your post, 1 thing I thought of is instead of hanging the metal ball with a string or something....
hang it with a spring... then the ball might have a tedency to bounce back and stay in the center, instead of just swinging around....
(but don't know if this is good or not... just top of my head...)

you can also try the mercury switch.....  (that's usually for tilting...)
but if you lay it almost flat.... it might work.....

good luck....

[Rook3]

Well, I'll start at the beginning of the list...

what are you using for the front plunger?  Does that actually activate a switch? 

That's an actual pinball plunger shaft I had on hand. It has an "E" clip on the front, a pinball plunger spring in front, and a washer against the cab wall. On the outside is another washer, and a spring, then the pull handle. The spring is too weak though. Right diameter, wrong thickness, so it crushes easily. I used part of a pinball coil sleeve so the plunger wouldn't just wear on the bare wood hole in the cab.  I plan on running all switches through an IPac controller board which should give me every keystroke combo I could ever need.

Is there a way to make a plunger that works really well with pinmame?

Since the "Enter" key is what is usually used to launch a button in pinmame, I'd just do what someone else here did, and use a leaf switch. The longer the button is held, the longer the plunger is pulled back. On games with a fire button style (Indy Jones, Shadow, etc.,), pulling the plunger would auto fire the ball, just as a regular fire button would.

Are you going to have a lockdown bar and apron too? I'll be interested in how you'll do the nudges, as I haven't added nudge controls to mine yet.

I plan on it. Keep in mind that this particular cab is just a preliminary test bed. Once I work out any "kinks" in the design, I plan on making a full size pinball cabinet.

I haven't completely worked out the nudge issue, which is really the whole reason I built this. I want to avoid any additional external buttons that you wouldn't have on a regular pinball machine. Things like an exit game button will be on the bottom of the cab where you normally can't see them.

I've been given the idea of using the lockdown bar itself, combined with tension springs and switches to do the nudging, and the concept is really growing on me. It seems do-able.

Essentially the bob would sit directly in the middle of these 4 sensors... EXTREMELY close to them, so a bump to the machine would cause it to hit the appropriate sensor depending on which direction you whacked the box.  The only issue I see with this is, you whack it hard enough that the bob bounces around and hits multiple sensors as it swings back and forth.  That would be a bit innacurate I guess.

Good idea! The accidental bounce issue is what is keeping me from jumping on the mercury switch idea right now. I don't want extra "bounces" if possible.

Good questions and ideas everyone!

Russ

[Rip]

Great idea!  I've been acquiring the parts (lockdown bar, plunger, and legs) as I come across them for the same project.  I'm torn between building my own cab, or gutting an old cab.

You've inspired me to build my own!  Where's my rubber mallet and duct tape

I'm eager to see your results...keep up the good work

John

[Raven..]

How about using a slam switch from an old arcade cab to activate the "nudge"?

[Rook3]

The only issue I see with that is the slam switches were designed to register a severe impact. But being a design mod of a reed switch with a weight attached, it just might work. Again, the whole issue is to have it register an impact, but not "rebound" on the other switches from that impact.

It certainly might work for the forward movement.

Russ

[ChadTower]

You just described a  real Tilt mechanism, for the most part.  The tilt is implemented with a plumb bob inside of a metal circle.  When the bob touches the circle, the circuit is closed and the machine is Tilted.  Every time you nudge or slam the machine, the bob sways around inside that circle.  Nudge it hard enough and it Tilts.

When I was looking through Home Depot the other day, I noticed a tool in the speed-square and rulers section that looked promising.

[Rook3]

Just a minor update. Finally got a pinball lockdown bar on the way... after losing 7 auctions on eBarf. 

After I receive that I'll start working out the nudge mechanism.

Russ

[Wade]

You should have asked, I have a dozen lockdown bars sitting in my garage, I've been tempted to throw them away.

Wade

[Rook3]

Doh! Wish I'd known that. I knew I should have asked here first. Oh well, live and learn I guess.

Put 'em up on eBay. They've been selling for between $5-$15 with $10 shipping.

I ended up paying about $21 shipped. 

Russ

[Wade]

I may have to try that...

Wade

[RayB]

What is a lockdown bar?

[Rook3]

Are you serious, or joking? 

If serious, the lockdown bar is a (usually) silver metal bar on the front
edge of a pinball cabinet, above the coin door. It's purpose is to lock the playfield glass in place.

Russ

[Wade]

Some people have asked about buying a bar, so I'm going to post pics here.  Plus, it illustrates what a lockdown is.

[ChadTower]

[Pik4chu]

Tilt assembly 10$ each from happs

no reason to reinvent the wheel after all

[ChadTower]

Yeah, that is what I described, a real tilt mechanism.

[ChadTower]

[Pik4chu]

that looks like either a printer piece of paper taped on there, or a semi large lcd screen   Though I have a hunch its a screen since it looks like a Sony logo on the left there

[Crazy Cooter]

That's Foley's (Ultracade) "prototype".  It's a crt.

[Rook3]

Tilt assembly 10$ each from happs

no reason to reinvent the wheel after all

It's not the 'tilt' I need to work on, it's the 'nudge' aspect of the game construction.
I can tilt VP easily by just nudging too much.

Russ

[Pik4chu]

Tilt assembly 10$ each from happs

no reason to reinvent the wheel after all

It's not the 'tilt' I need to work on, it's the 'nudge' aspect of the game construction.
I can tilt VP easily by just nudging too much.

Russ

What I mean is use the tilt switch for your 'nudge' aspect.  All it is is a motion switch, what you connect it to is up to you

[ChadTower]

It wouldn't work as a nudge... it's not directional, it's just any contact at all to a single switch.

[Wade]

Just use a regular tilt bob, but put 4 leaf switches around it.  So if you push forward, the tilt will move backward and hit the leaf switch.  It will take some tweaking to get the sensitivity right, I'm sure, but it should work.  You can probably just adjust the bob up and down to tweak it.

Wade

[ChadTower]

That would be prone to unwanted nudges when the bob continued to rock around the switches after the first bob.  The bob really isn't suited for this, some other solution would be much better.

[Pik4chu]

That would be prone to unwanted nudges when the bob continued to rock around the switches after the first bob.

[ChadTower]

The first thing that comes to mind to me is some type of custom corner cut, where half of the corner is slightly separated and has a leaf switch behind it.  That way, you really would nudge the corner of the cabinet to nudge the game.

[Pik4chu]

The first thing that comes to mind to me is some type of custom corner cut, where half of the corner is slightly separated and has a leaf switch behind it.

[ChadTower]

The problem with that is that you don't nudge above the buttons, you nudge under the buttons, on a real pin.  At least I do.

[Rook3]

My original design called for having the entire control area about halfway down the height of the coin door, to about 10" from the front of the cabinet to be a "free floating" block that moved switches inside the base of the cabinet.

My new plan is a greatly reduced version of that, with only the lockdown bar moving.

And on a real pin, I actually nudge the lockdown bar. Well, it's locked down, so it nudges the cabinet.  I've never had one come loose or anything, so it works for me.

Russ

[ChadTower]

Man, on a really heavy machine, like Twilight Zone, you'd have to get a running start to nudge with the lockdown bar.

[Rook3]

Received my Ultimarc shipment today. Ouch! I'm not going to be buying anything for a while now methinks.

Messed around with their encoder/CP layout software and this should work just fine. Pretty slick little piece of software.

Russ

[ChadTower]

I bet when those Ultracade pinball cabs come out, they'll show a good nudging solution.

[Rook3]

That's the difference between little 'ol me, working alone, and Ultracade working with a team.

I'm quite interested in how they'll work it out. Up to this point all coin op video pinball machines that featured a nudge function had a dedicated moveable  control panel device to replicate that feature. Atari's video pinball, Sega's Time Scanner... and that other one who's name escapes me at the moment. I never did build up my own Time Scanner's panel, so this will be sort of a "see, you can do it" situation for me.

Russ

[Wade]

I bet when those Ultracade pinball cabs come out, they'll show a good nudging solution.

Probably so.  We are talking about a DIY solution, but if someone were going to make several units and didn't mind putting a little money into it, a cheap G-meter could be used as a interface to software, to accurately be used for both Tilts and Nudges.

This is probably the way real pinballs would do it, if pinballs every pick up in popularity again or we see any type of modern progress with them.  It could be superior to a mechanical tilt bob in many ways.

Wade