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Is Foley really the devil..?? (Previously: RetroBlast is a traitor..??)

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Tommy Boy:
I disagree with the general doom and gloom that I've been reading lately re the MAME community getting squashed by corporates.  I work in business development for a top-5 (US) financial services company.  Part of my job is to maximize revenues from our intellectual property portfolio, which includes licensing deals and finding competitive products that infringe our IP.  I'm not a lawyer but I am the lead business guy on the team and I understand well how the business strategy works in this space.

The fact that none of the heavyweights, such as Namco, have bothered to send cease and desist notices to MAMEdev lo these many years (8.5 years?) speaks volumes to me.  Further, when Foley confered with his lawyer and made his move to do something, did he go after the free ROM distribution mechanisms?  No, because he can't.  Only the copyright owners can shut down the ROM pirating.  And you better believe that Foley has been chirping in their ears to do something about it (in light of the fact that he's paid them a pile of money for licenses.)

Why won't Namco et al go after the ROMz sources with a legal vengeance?  My theory is that they can't make a business case work for it.  Lawyers are DAMN expensive.  Everyone reading these words who wants a full MAME rom set probably already owns one.  The genie is out of the bottle on that one.

So if the heavyweights decide to burn a few million and start the legal saber rattling, how many new sales opportunities will that create for them?  Where's the revenue?  Yes, they might sell a few thousand units to honest people who want to be legit.  But really, with all of the free roms out there, how many units are they going to sell?  I doubt the potential demand is worth the effort and expense of pursuing the pirates -- or else they'd be doing it.

Foley is the proof of the theory.  He's a nickel-and-dimer who got pinched by paying for licenses that the rights owners won't enforce.  And where is iRoms?  According to Kevin, Foley has grown silent on that issue.  Could it be because even slow Foley has realized that you can't make money as a middle man in that space if the copyright owners continue to look the other way on piracy?  In any event, it seems like Foley's efforts are now being directed towards the hardware business...that should tell us something.

In any event, I could be wrong.  Aaron and company could get hit with a handful of desist orders tomorrow.  But I doubt it...

Kremmit:
Kev-

You officially have my approval to review any product from any manufacturer on your site.



Of course, since it's YOUR site, you probably don't NEED approval from me or any of these weenies that are ragging on you.   ::)

MonitorGuru:
I think Kev summed it up best.

Nearly everyone running MAME has ILLEGAL roms.

If you're not 100% legal and clean, then you have no right to complain about anything that is happening regarding the legalities behind Mame. (And this statement does NOT provide support to Foley's actions, but DOES support MameDev's actions)

The corner has been turned, and I believe Mame, in it's present form, will be drastically different soon. Be it from MameDev stopping work/changing work, Namco/Nintendo/Sammy/Atari suing the pants off of MameDev/eBay/web sites, or something else. But it WILL change and has already started.

dweebs0r:
Ok, I withdraw my comments about Kevin being a sell out.

I guess I over reacted a bit.

I'm deleting my previous posts.

I do, however, still blame Foley for potentially causing a snowball effect that could easily cause Mame to be more trouble than its worth to the MameDevs.

God, I hope not...

-Dweebs

DarkKobold:

--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 12, 2005, 05:12:53 pm ---
I asked him about the MAME trademark move, the demand for royalties from marquee printers, and more. He never adequately answered my questions about the infringement of the MAME logo, but I can see at least where his grab for the MAME phrase could be considered legal (not ethical, but perhaps legal), since it was not being used commercially.

--- End quote ---

Unethical, and borderline legal, since any art created is auto-copyrighted.  Disgusting! 


--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 12, 2005, 05:12:53 pm ---I asked him about the demands of royalties: he explained that his requests for royalties were for the use of the characters and artwork that he has obtained an exclusive license for (at the cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars). Seemed fair enough.

--- End quote ---

But the MAME art was what he was seeking royalties. It is the job of the art owners, not Foley, to go after infringers.  He never said once to Emdkay that he was trying to collect royalties on things that he was paying royalties on. Infact, just because HE licensed them, doesn't mean he is allowed to collect royalties. The only royalties are paid to the original owners.


--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 12, 2005, 05:12:53 pm ---I also stand by what I said in my editorial: MAME has gotten too popular to survive as it is now, and we are going to have to adapt or be sued out of existence. It doesn't even matter who is right and who is wrong: no one involved in the project can survive a corporate lawsuit of any kind (none of the companies or MAMEdevs are rolling in cash, I'm certain).

--- End quote ---
This just isn't true. Look at Bleem! for example. Sony sued them, and lost.  Precedent means a lot in the justice system. Second of all, MAME is done to some degree. The source is out there; the damage is done. New updates make minor improvements to the old favourites here and there. However, the majority of updates are for obsecure titles.  Nothing will destroy the MAME that is here and now. Illegal roms are readily available. Its so simple, a child can do it, and lets face it, does on a normal basis. That distribution system isn't going anywhere.

Finally, there isn't a single ounce of information on BYOAC to lead people to find illegal roms. And as long as Saint keeps us on the right side of the law, we are protected.


--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 12, 2005, 05:12:53 pm ---I've asked him about the status of his announced i-ROMs service, but David Foley's continued silence about it is also a red flag for me. I want legal ROMs to be available - it's the only way MAME will appear legitimate in the eyes of the industry and the only way we can avoid further legal entaglements.

--- End quote ---
Corporations are not warm and fuzzy entities... If they decide to go after mame, they will. They won't care much for the legitimate ways to get roms. Remember when they went after the designer of MP3s because napster made it possible to easily pirate? They didn't care about the few legal services that existed at the time.


--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 12, 2005, 05:12:53 pm ---Anyway, I hope this helps explain my position. I realize not everyone will agree, and that's fine. Just don't go chalking my position up to some sort of greasy sellout...

--- End quote ---


I hope you realize that I don't consider you a sellout, I just feel that Foley was trying to pull another fast one on you. It seemed that he succeeded with his brand of circular logic.  I'd rather you not support him, as a review, good or bad, is free advertisement for a product.

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