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TOKN KB16 (Tiger-Heli's Testing Complete)
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 20, 2005, 04:49:12 pm ---Just an FYI:
I've revised my review, thanks to another TOKN16 donated by Monkeybomb(thanks, dude!)
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/tokn16.html
--- End quote ---
Kev,
Thanks for updating the review. It's much more accurate now (IMHO). One downside is I think you only updated the testing and conclusions, so the intro stuff sounds pretty positive until you get to the end.
I will be formally writing up my conclusions on the unit and adding them to my encoder comparison.
--- Quote ---I encountered the same exact problems as Tiger-Heli with this encoder. It's basically useless for MAME (or at least, for any game other than Pac-Man).
--- End quote ---
Actually, I think that's a little bit harsh, but maybe not uncalled for given the IMHO poor design and deceptive marketing of the unit.
The unit is only supposed to suppport one joystick and 3-4 buttons or 2 joysticks and 2 buttons each. It CAN do this if you don't wire it up as labelled and if you then re-program it.
My main problem with the unit is that it costs more than some true 32-input encoders, and it is marketed like it will never exhibit ghosting, which it definitely will if you don't use diodes.
(And yes, it does seem ironic to me that I'm here defending the device after Retroblast basically trashed it !!!!) :D
CheffoJeffo:
Thanks for the update (re: Ctrl), Kev.
Cheers.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: CheffoJeffo on June 20, 2005, 10:24:04 pm ---Was just looking at the TOKN website after reading Kevin's revised review ... is this document new (I don't recall seeing it when I looked before)?
http://toknmedia.com/downloads/toknkb16_readme.pdf
There is a pretty big disclaimer that states the the Ctrl key can not be used in conjunction with any other key and that the P1B1 should be remapped to something other than Ctrl. The document suggests that future revisions to the firmware may correct this problem.
Hmmm.
Cheers.
--- End quote ---
Whoa!!! That's scary in a number of ways. Mattp sent me a copy of toknkb16_readme.pdf, circa 01 Dec 2004, and it doesn't mention this at all.
It did mention this, which is NOT in the new document:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Known bugs firmware 0301
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Passthrough key sequences of simultaneous shift-ctrl are not received
correctly. As a result KB16 will occasionally not transmit the ctrl
to the PC. This only applies to passthrough and does not affect gameplay.
***
I didn't verify the above, but if MattP mentioned it, it is probably accurate (I don't think he would make up faults to document), and unfortunately, probably still applies to current units.
Anyone who understands a matrix encoder could confirm (as KevSteele has) that the ghosting has nothing to do with the P1B1 assignment. You can press Button 3, Button4 and Button5 and you will get a phantom Button 6 keypress, so how could P1B1 being assigned to L Ctrl have anything to do with it.
It sounds like Mattp has either read these posts or gotten feedback from customers about the ghosting problems and is trying to put something out to address it.
The part I don't understand is: Does he REALLY not understand his own product well enough to think that this might be helpful? Or does he know that it won't make a difference, but figure that people will assume that that is what is causing the ghosting and therefore continue to buy KB16's?
What really frustrates me, as I said earlier, is that all he really needs to do is the same as most other matrix encoder manufacturers do and say that the unit uses an 8x2 matrix and will exhibit ghosting if you don't choose inputs carefully or use diodes.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 20, 2005, 10:34:25 pm ---It's amazing to me how many 3-key combos will cause ghosting on this device - I tried all sorts of combos, and I'd guess 75-80% of the three-key combos I used cause ghost keys.
Kevin
--- End quote ---
Kevin,
It's an 8x2 matrix encoder, which means it can support 1 joystick and six buttons. Want to have some fun with it?
Wire up the joystick as indicated, and wire a button to Button 1, Button 3, Button 5, Button 7, 1P Start, and Coin 1. You should be able to press any button in any combination with no ghosting or problems whatsoever.
The downside: Wire up a button to Escape, and a button to one of the remaining inputs, say Button 2. Pressing Button 2 (now an admin button), Button 1, and Coin 1 (now action keys) will result in a phantom Esc and end your game.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: JMDickson on June 20, 2005, 10:57:13 pm ---Wow, someone is still using that old thing? If a key counter would be a useful addition, I'm sure I could scrape up the source and add one. In fact GhostKey is long overdue for a transition to windows... one more project to add to my list. ::)
--- End quote ---
Yep, I still like Ghostkey.
BTW, we now have the same problems on 3 units (counting jjd's KB32) using at least 4 software packages, so I think we have a consensus.
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