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TOKN KB16 (Tiger-Heli's Testing Complete)

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Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: KevSteele on June 09, 2005, 11:33:50 am ---Looking at the photos, the TOKN32 looks like two TOKN16 boards "squished" together, so I would suspect that it's the equivalent of two TOKN16 boards daisy-chained (a feature that is supported by the TOKN16).

--- End quote ---
I agree it "looks like" two KB16's squished together and it "probably" works the same.  I also know Mattp could have remapped the matrix when he made the new product.

Mainly I didn't want to have jjd report that the ghosting occurred on different keys or didn't occur and have that appear to invalidate my test, but if MonkeyBomb tests his KB16 also, we can get a pretty good consensus.

--- Quote ---I definitely feel like I dropped the ball by on not testing all sixteen inputs simultaneously, but I honestly never even thought it was necessary (I guess I'm spoiled from IPAC and Keywiz testing.) Big screwup on my part, it now appears.

--- End quote ---
Well, on the other hand, I was a little obsessive in expecting all 16 inputs to work, but I initially found ghosting with 3 buttons and no joystick inputs connected, so I'm not sure how you missed it.  Seems odd to me.

--- Quote ---I've emailed Mattp for clarification on this situation.

--- End quote ---
Given previous statements, I suspect he'll say the unit works fine and I'm making stuff up to help RandyT.

--- Quote ---I'm going to be pulling my review temporarily until I can confirm Tiger's findings.

--- End quote ---
Thanks!

Tiger-Heli:

--- Quote from: jjd on June 09, 2005, 11:44:25 am ---Well, in a joystick setup, all 16 inputs could never really be used at the same time, could they?

--- End quote ---

Technically, in a joystick set-up, Up and Down or Right and Left cannot be pressed simultaneously and you cannot do this on a KeyWiz encoder either, but RandyT does mention this.  I was seeing ghost inputs with 3 buttons depressed and no joysticks.  I would have cut the KB16 a lot of slack if it functioned as a Joystick and 12 buttons encoder, even though it was not marketed that way. 

--- Quote ---I will hook the KB32 up to a full compliment of inputs on a 2-player CP and mash button combinations in a quasi-scientific manner.  If it's not techincally possible to have inputs to all 4 joystick inputs at the same time, I don't know that I can reproduce that part of the experiment, but I will try to work all possible button press/joystick motion combinations into the test.   If I get extra key presses, I will report them.   

--- End quote ---
Sounds good to me.

NoOne=NBA=:
Based on comments from Mattp, and the features he plays up in his posts, I would guess that this device was originally DESIGNED for use in a "casino" application, and was reworked to output MAME standard keys when a side market was seen for it.

EEPROM and brownout protection are necessities in casino applications.

If the encoder were wired specifically for such an application, it should be possible to workaround the ghosting issues.

Tiger-Heli:
Eureka!!!!! HOT DOG!!!!!  I finally figured this puppy out.  Right now, I feel pretty proud of myself b/c I know exactly what is going on with the unit, and it was a tough egg to crack, and I did it all on my own.  The mystery is 95% solved.  Read on!

First off, forget everything I said previously about the unit.  My previous comments are accurate, but will end up being irrelevant.

HOT-SWAPPABILITY - when I first started the PC and hot-plugged in the KB16, the PC immediately went into suspend or shut down mode (monitor went black, CPU fan shut off, but PS fan was running).  I shut off (rear switch) the PS, unplugged it, plugged it back in and re-booted and everything seems to be okay.  The PS/2 spec does not officially support hot-swapping, but I never had this happen with the KeyWiz, perhaps it could and I

Tiger-Heli:
FOLLOW-UP:  The method I posted was empirically verified for the 1P six button scenario (I got 8 inputs and no ghosting in any of the inputs, but it is overly restrictive.

What I essentially did was allow the joystick opposite directionals (JOD) to ghost and then pick inputs from Column A only.

The real requirement is that only one input is used per row unless it is a JOD in which case only two are allowed.

So, ASSuMEing my matrix is correct (big guess at this point), my six action buttons should be able to be:
Button 1 or Button 2 (but not both)
Button 3 or Button 4 (but not both)
Button 5 or Button 6 (but not both)
Button 7 or Button 8 (but not both)
1P Start or 2P Start (but not both)
Coin 1 or Escape (but not both)

This is just theory at this point, though!

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