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720 stick alternative?

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Lilwolf:
I have both controllers... But the 49 way is out... And my 720 was taken apart a bit ago.. Need to put it on another control panel... Been jonzn to do it for a bit... But the plans for it I want to do it right this time (last time I had to readjust it pretty ofthen and the optics where being held on with non-rigid metal.

The real test will probably be in the slalum course.  But finding ANY solution that is decent will be good for the masses.   Oscar looked at the 720 controller to see how feasable it was to build a repo... The answer was a big no.

btw, the restrictor on the top has one little feature that is pretty much required.  Its not exact.  It moves back/forth by 1/8 inch.  I think if it WAS exact... you wouldn't be able to do any quick turns.  So if looking at a bottom solution you would probably need to give it that slack.  You might be able to get something on the bottom pretty easy.... but getting one on top should be very very easy.

Xiaou2:

 Heya Kremmit,

 just a note about one of your comments...

  While the skater may show only 16 direction sprites... the game may still have many more  'vectors' for the character to travel in.

   Sometimes they did this to save on memmory... as really, a  2 degree change wouldnt be a very visible change to the character...   

 However... a  2 degree vector change, would be like 2 inches of travel by the end of a screen worth or movment.  So indeed, the higher the accuracy, the more control you will ultimately have.
 

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on April 03, 2005, 06:42:30 am ---
  While the skater may show only 16 direction sprites... the game may still have many more  'vectors' for the character to travel in.

   Sometimes they did this to save on memmory... as really, a  2 degree change wouldnt be a very visible change to the character...   

 However... a  2 degree vector change, would be like 2 inches of travel by the end of a screen worth or movment.  So indeed, the higher the accuracy, the more control you will ultimately have.
 

--- End quote ---


Please provide an example of a game that does this. Preferably one where you aren't "floating" in space ala Asteroids. 

BTW, 720 isn't one of them.


From a game design standpoint, this would be a most bizarre dynamic to implement as the player would never be able to tell which exact direction he/she were to move in if the on-screen character didn't indicate it explicitly.

RandyT

Xiaou2:

 I believe you are correct in that 720 does not use multiple vectors.   However, it could  also be that the driver is not correct.  I do not have an older version to test - since they have changed it recently to use analog stick.
 
 However, you said it yourself.   Asteroids does in fact do this, and it has nothing to do with outerspace.   It also is very controlable... not confusing, as there are enough frames to let you know approximately which direction you are heading.   The vectors are small, so it dosnt look radically odd... and they only are noticable if you compare the end results after about a screen worth of travel. 

 I believe this system was also used in low resolution systems like atari 2600... where vectors are used instead of pixils because there simply wasnt enough resolution for smoothness of playability and control.   It was also used as a memmory saving technique.   

  I think it would actually have worked better to use more vectors for 720.. as it would be less clunky feeling.
 

RandyT:

--- Quote from: Xiaou2 on April 03, 2005, 04:20:59 pm ---
 However, you said it yourself.   Asteroids does in fact do this, and it has nothing to do with outerspace.   It also is very controlable... not confusing, as there are enough frames to let you know approximately which direction you are heading.   The vectors are small, so it dosnt look radically odd... and they only are noticable if you compare the end results after about a screen worth of travel. 

--- End quote ---

IMHO, your supposition is still flawed.

This is an "apples to oranges" comparison, which is why I asked for different one.  Asteroids is a vector game, and as such, does not have the same limitations as a game like 720.  The spaceship is "drawn" by the code and can, in theory, have an unlimited number of rotated representations.  In a rasterized version of this game, like MAME's, the ship is still drawn, but the image is approximated based on the resolution of the curent screen mode.

In a raster game like 720, each view is hand drawn, and the one that is "plugged in" depends on the direction the player is, or plans on, moving in.

Now, to go back to your statement, there is a difference between movement based on residual inertia, as in Asterioids, and simply moving a player in a direction, as indicated by the number of directions he/it can face in.  Even in Asteroids, the ship applies thrust in the exact direction it is currently facing.  Inertia takes over from there, but that has nothing to do with the direction the force/movement is applied in.


--- Quote --- I believe this system was also used in low resolution systems like atari 2600... where vectors are used instead of pixils because there simply wasnt enough resolution for smoothness of playability and control.   It was also used as a memmory saving technique.   

--- End quote ---

I think you could use a trip down memory lane :) .  The 2600 version of Asteroids would never be able to deal with movement utilizing sub-pixel precision (which is what you are talking about.)    In fact, the actual asteroids were so "stupid" (read: controlled by an underpowered processor) they could only move in primarily vertical directions, at least until they were very small...then a couple moved at a perfect 1-up 1-over direction..  Memory was the least of it's problems.

In any case, if you take a close look at that game, you'll see that there are 16 unique ship images.  If you fly around, you'l find that you are always drifting exactly in one of those 16 primary directions.


Any other examples?

RandyT



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