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New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)

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RandyT:

--- Quote from: Flinkly on March 05, 2005, 08:57:25 pm ---yeah, what 1up said.  we've typed 7 pages of posts arguing for and against your product, trying to make it better, yada, yada, yada...

but when can we have this product you speak of?  for all we know, it doesn't even exist, and we've been arguing about nothin.

--- End quote ---

Now that would be classic. :)

But not even I am that diabolical.


In any case, here's an update.

You already know about the 5 shifted buttons, but that has been tested and seems to be ok so far.

A variation of Kremmit's 16-way mode has been implemented for a total of 8-modes now. (nuts, now I gotta make another icon.....)  There's only one way to implement this one, so testing with it is somewhat irrelevant.  It is what it is (could be great, could be so-so)  It's a freebie.

I received the Williams 49-way from Kremmit (thanks again) and am looking through the parts bin for a connector.  The pins and spacing are different than the Midway stick, so the floppy connector trick won't work with this one.  I don't know whether this has been brought up in the past, but it looks like a good source for connectors for this beast would be a dead AT power supply.  Think motherboard power connectors......

I have a couple of comments about this control.  The first is that it is the first joystick I have seen that looks like it was a major cost contributor to a machine.  The second is the odd behavior of the "spider" when in action.  It does something that I have a difficult time believing was intentional and tends to confirm the notion that the spider was created out of a need to avoid patent issues as much as to lend the particular feel to the joystick.

Strangely, it "pops" when you move the stick.  If you think of the spider as a rigid, but bendable member, you can imagine that something weird has to happen to the leg opposite the one being stretched.  The leg compresses as much as it can, but then "pops" to one side or the other as the bushing at the end allows it to spin.  Looking at what happens from the bottom of the stick, especially when pushed into the diagonal positions, tends to give one a little concern regarding accuracy as it actualy creates resistance in a random direction until the spider leg(s) "pop" out of the way.  The "physicists" must have missed that one, as even I can envision a spider shape where A) this wouldn't occur, and B) would eliminate the need for free-spinning bushings at the end of the legs.

So, it should be an interesting test.  I'll keep everyone updated on the progress.

RandyT

NoOne=NBA=:

--- Quote from: RandyT on March 05, 2005, 09:49:19 pm ---The "physicists" must have missed that one
--- End quote ---

I wonder if that isn't due to the age of the joystick.

What I'm thinking is that the spider, as manufactured 20+ years ago, was probably stretched in all four directions; and has since permanently stretched, and taken a bit of a set.
As manufactured, my guess is that it wasn't NECESSARY for those legs to spin around like that, they probably just contracted.

This is all conjecture because I haven't seen the workings of an aged Williams stick, much less a brand new one 20 years ago.

Flinkly:
huh...i've got a williams, and i can see what your talkin about.  i'm an engineer, so we talk about this kinda stuff alot, like presstressed concrete.

so in fact, with the spider off, it would be alot smaller, than when placed on the stick, so one would have to stretch it out already to put it on.  the only problem i see with this, is that you'd already have to stretch it to put it on, but then you'd have to stretch the leg even more by going in the opposing direction.  might be too much stretch.  all that aside, i've never seen a new one either, so i have no idea.  but it does sound like a good idea.


RandyT:

--- Quote from: NoOne=NBA= on March 06, 2005, 03:33:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on March 05, 2005, 09:49:19 pm ---The "physicists" must have missed that one
--- End quote ---

I wonder if that isn't due to the age of the joystick.

What I'm thinking is that the spider, as manufactured 20+ years ago, was probably stretched in all four directions; and has since permanently stretched, and taken a bit of a set.
As manufactured, my guess is that it wasn't NECESSARY for those legs to spin around like that, they probably just contracted.

This is all conjecture because I haven't seen the workings of an aged Williams stick, much less a brand new one 20 years ago.

--- End quote ---

I was curious about the effects of age on the stick as well.  However, this one is in very nice condition.  Not a crack, tear or sign of wear on the spider.  If it was stretched to the degree where it would make a difference, there should be some small sign of visble wear.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe the spider was stretched to the point where the throw of the stick wouldn't necessitate it's bending out of the way.  Once it compresses (it doesn't take much) it has no choice but flex out.  And it's not just a little.  That leg has to become a full .500" shorter at the full distance of the throw.

The fact that the engineers intentionally made the ends of the spider free-spinning, speaks volumes about the design.  They knew this happened and tried their best to account for it.  It would have been cheaper to use fasteners that immobilized the ends, but they put in machined pins with tiny e-clips so it could move.

Now, a good possibility is that this spider is actually in too good condition.  Perhaps after a couple weeks of abuse, it would find a bend direction that it "preferred" and the "pop" would be reduced or maybe even eliminated. 

As it is, I'm a little less than impressed with the way it functions.  I now have the code working for auto-detect of stick type and proper operation of both.  I'm really happy I was able to work with an actual Williams stick to do this as the "information" that is out there describing the differences in the signals between the two 49-way varieties is, well...flat out wrong.

Flinkly, you are dead on.  With that kind of static stress, the life of the spider, especially given the materials of the age, would have been much shorter.  Nowadays, with some of the cool silicones available, you could actually do something like this and it would probably hold up.  But not 25 years ago.


Current status....Finishing up.  Not happy with the effect the "pop" of the spider has on some of the modes. There is nothing that can be done to the mappings to account for this, so the project is getting wrapped up.  I think Williams stick users will still benefit a great deal from the way this interface operates, but they will need to consider the less than optimal centering mechanism when evaluating the overall performance of the combination.

RandyT

Flinkly:
just a quick question randy cause i've got a williams, as i've stated numerous times, and i only got it to play sinistar and maybe arch rivals, but does the stick work like it's supposed to in the 49-way modes?  this is really all i'm worried about with the williams.  i'll probably end up getting to happs 49-ways to use in another panel for the 49-way modes as well as the others.

and when you say it auto detects, does that mean i can turn on my machine with the happs plugged in, and then after a bit i want to play sinistar, and plug in my williams (without restarting the whole system), will the interface detect the change on the fly?  or just on startup?

well randy, thanks again for such a cool product, and i'm sure it's gonna hold up to all the hype.  now i''m just waiting to see what people say when they get them loaded up and working...

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