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New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)

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mahuti:
::)

RandyT:

--- Quote from: sWampy on March 02, 2005, 08:52:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: mahuti on March 02, 2005, 08:41:17 pm ---Whatever dude. There are lots of examples of people building hot-rod style control panels... rather than full-fledged arcade cabs. Those CPs ARE portable, and I can see the value that this product could hold for them. It's not unheard of for someone to take a CP to somene elses house...

--- End quote ---

Yeah, I'm sure a few do, and a few guys wear their little brothers panties.

--- End quote ---

Yeah, but we won't hold that against you ;)

RandyT

RandyT:

--- Quote from: u_rebelscum on March 02, 2005, 07:27:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: RandyT on March 02, 2005, 12:52:32 am ---
--- Quote ---I just have a misgiving about the possibility of stuff being lost in translation:
1) 49-way 8 pins -> USB analog ("raw", "Progressive", "linear", "exponential")
2)    -> mame internal analog
3)    -> gamedriver 49-way 8 pins. 
editted: layout and numbering

--- End quote ---

Actually, the hardware removes one level of translation. 
--- End quote ---

 ??? Which one? I don't see how that could be possible.   If anything, I've left out translation steps ('cause usually those steps aren't used or are skipped).

--- End quote ---

In the sense of what the computer has to deal with. The first level translation is no longer necessary.


--- Quote ---For 49-way games, then the driver gets the mame core formated data, and translates it back to 8 bits that match the 8 pins on the joystick.  IOW, it's translated to back to the original format, so the ROM can do the processing.  (Translation 3)

--- End quote ---

This is the part that is most important.  It also seems to be the part that is the most forgiving.  All that needs to happen here is that the game sees 3 distinct levels of force in each of the primary directions.  Anything beyond that is governed 100% by the joystick mechanics.

The analog operation is a nice bonus, and it can make some games playable that never had a chance on an 8-way.  But it will never be ideal with something that has only 1/29th the resolution (typically).


--- Quote ---<off=chest>
Oh BTW, and just my opinion (you can ignore if you want, Randy ;) ), I don't like the term "raw" used as the name for one of the modes.  "Raw" 49-way to me means 8 bits, one bit per output pin on the controller, matching exactly what the respective pin is outputing, four 4 bits per axis.  Wiz49's "raw" mode sounds like SJC's "linear" mode, which is very different than the raw output of the 49-way stick (IOW it is processed data).  And to me, that's not raw anymore.  [shrug]  Not that it really matters at all, and "What's in a name, a rose [blah][blah][blah]..", but everytime I see "raw" I think "data as if direct from stick" and then need to readjust to Randy's mode naming.  Sorry, please ignore this paragraph, not important. 
</off=chest feel=better>

--- End quote ---

Yeah, but you brought it up, so now we have to talk about it :)

By your definition, the "raw" outrput from a 49-way is binary data.  Things are either on or they are off in combinations that mean something to the application looking at them.  These combinations essentially form this "grid" that everyone likes drawing on.  The grid itself is actually the raw output of the stick.  Now, each one of these blocks can be assigned a number, or you can look at the grid and assign a range in each of the 2-axes and divide it into pieces.

The computer has no way to think about the binary data as it has no native 49-way interface, but it can assign a range to each axis or set of opposing primary directions.  Just as the circuit generates binary data based on the linear spacing of the optical sensors, it's "raw" progression, so too are the values selected along the range the computer understands. 

The digital form of output on the 49-way is mostly irrelevant when connecting it to the PC.  It's the "raw" spacing of the sensors that is important because this must always be translated into a usable form for the PC.  And if you don't perform the translation based on the spacing of the sensors, it is no longer "raw"

Raw49 =  Unmodified 49 way operation.  It is only "linear" by the coincidence that the sensors are spaced as such.

RandyT

Landstander:
Hi Randy

Thanks for coming up with such an awesome product. I have a few questions which I don't think have been answered yet.

What is your impression of using a 49-way plus your device in place of an analog stick? Good enough to ditch analog completely?

Have you tried 720 degrees with the 49-way?

Thanks!

Lotus:
Just have to de-lurk at this point..
I think we need to remember that it is conventional wisdom that the definition of an 8-way and 4-way stick is mechanical not electronic. The feel of the stick, ie not allowing the corners and being able to slide over the restrictor plate is why the sticks are different and why the T-Stick and even GGGs own 4-8 stick exist. So logically locking the diagonals does not gain much over what MAME already does.
I suspect that in this case the switching is necessary not to add any "feel" but because the 49-way stick is emulating the regular stick through an analog interface. So it's an extra hassle which does not result in an overall gain.
I suspect that if this was simply aimed at being a 49-way stick interface for anyone who wants such a stick, for games that use one, then it would have been accepted here with less of the "trial by fire". It's a great product for this basic purpose.

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