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IPAC4 or KE72?
calicyco:
Hi,
I suppose this is a basic question, but here goes. I am starting to build a 4 player cab with spinner and trackball. The encoder is my biggest hurdle right now. Do I use the IPAC4 with its 56 inputs, or the KE72?
KEYBOARD ENCODER:
I was reading on at the ultimarc site about the IPAC4 and since it seems I will need approximately 56 inputs, I would be just at the limit of this board.
What concerns me, is the following from Ultimarc:
"The I-PAC4 has 56 inputs. All programmable and designated 4 joysticks, 8 buttons each plus coin 1,2,3,4 and start 1,2,3,4. Two of the inputs are assigned as shift keys to access two separate codes sets covering the player 1,2 and the player 3,4 inputs."
Does this shift mode here mean that I press a certain button, than press other buttons to select an alternate key stroke? I think this might be kind of funky and non-intuitive for certain users.
OPTICAL ENCODER:
There is the optipac, and the KE72 with the trackball interface. I plan on having one trackball, and one spinner. How do you use these two on a KE72? I know the optipac states that both are connected and it detects which one moves first and uses that one. How does the KE72 do it? Are both the spinner and the trackball live at the same time? How is the wiring done? The KE72 has a plug for the Happ trackball, what about the spinner? Do you splice into this connection?
As a side note, are there any games that use two trackballs or two spinners? I've seen some boards that have two of each.
Thanks!! This is my first post, as I'm about ready to begin this project. Right now I have everything I need except encoder and a cabinet. I plan on getting the CP done right then design the cab around that.
Shape D.:
i'd go with the ipac 4, set up would be eaisier and the shift function is assignable. So you don't even have to use it if you don't want to.
Tiger-Heli:
BTW, - http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/index.htm for reference (shameless plug) - now that that's out of the way.
Not to discredit the KE-72 (it's a excellent product if that's what you want) . . .
KE-72 - $120
KE-72T - $140
I-PAC/4 - $69
I-PAC/2 - $43
Opti-PAC - $40
You could (and would be better off, IMHO) buying TWO I-PAC/4's and daisy-chaining them for 108-inputs (not that there are that many (107-key keyboard, if MAME recognizes WAKE and SLEEP, which I don't believe it does)). You could also buy and daisy chain the I-PAC/4, I-PAC/2, and opti-pac and have 84-inputs, plus Two trackballs and 4 spinners for $152.
Not that I'm saying this is what you need or the best way to go, but it's way better than the Hagstrom.
--- Quote from: calicyco on November 12, 2004, 07:20:50 pm ---I was reading on at the ultimarc site about the IPAC4 and since it seems I will need approximately 56 inputs, I would be just at the limit of this board.
--- End quote ---
Well, I cover this on my page as well, but you might explain to me how you are at the limit of the board. Keep in mind there are NO 4-player arcade games that use more than 4-buttons per player. . . (Console emulation is a different story, but if you even want this on your cab, you might be better served by having a couple of front USB ports and some plug-in gamepads).
Keep in mind you could share P1 and P2 Butttons 5-7 as additional inputs for P3 and P4, but even if you didn't -
4 joysticks - 16 inputs
4 coin and start - 8 inputs
7 P1 and P2 buttons - 14 inputs
4 P3 and P4 buttons - 8 inputs
46 inputs total, so you still have ten inputs for Pause, Escape, Tab, Enter, F12 (???), etc.
--- Quote ---What concerns me, is the following from Ultimarc:
"The I-PAC4 has 56 inputs. All programmable and designated 4 joysticks, 8 buttons each plus coin 1,2,3,4 and start 1,2,3,4. Two of the inputs are assigned as shift keys to access two separate codes sets covering the player 1,2 and the player 3,4 inputs."
Does this shift mode here mean that I press a certain button, than press other buttons to select an alternate key stroke? I think this might be kind of funky and non-intuitive for certain users.
--- End quote ---
Yep, that paragraph is confusing. Trust me, you get 56 direct inputs. Two of these (non-action preferably) inputs can be used to send an alternate keystroke when depressed for an additional 54 inputs (110 total, not that there are that many available). This is very funky and non-intuitive for the guest user, but here's how it could benefit you: Just an example -
Let's say you want access to MAME's TAB menu without plugging a keyboard into your cab. You can mount a button to a dedicated input, but that adds an extra button to your cab and invites guests to mess up your settings and then complain that the cab is broken.
Alternately, you could use the I-PAC/4's shift function so that say if you pressed "Pause and Joystick 1 Right" at the same time, the Tab key would be sent. Most guests won't try this (especially if you're on Stick 1), but as long as you remember it, you don't have to hunt for a keyboard to make a 2-second change to the dipswitch settings.
--- Quote ---There is the optipac, and the KE72 with the trackball interface. I plan on having one trackball, and one spinner. How do you use these two on a KE72?
--- End quote ---
Well the KE-72T interface is only designed for one trackball (or two spinners) I THINK(!) you could hook both up with a DPDT switch like this:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/DPDTswitch.shtml , but I wouldn't really recommend it.
--- Quote --- I know the optipac states that both are connected and it detects which one moves first and uses that one.
--- End quote ---
Right, if you want the trackball and spinner BOTH to be available at all times, the opti-pac is really about the only way to go. (www.oscarcontrols.com also sells a pre-hacked USB mouse for about $13, which is a great option if you wanted say a modular set-up, and/or you could use this and a different brand mouse hack, but I think a pair of OSCAR hacks might swap positions on re-boot (which is bad)).
Even if they didn't, they would both be always active and not auto-switch like the opti-pac.
--- Quote ---How does the KE72 do it? Are both the spinner and the trackball live at the same time?
--- End quote ---
No . . . I would think you could wire them both up and have them both active but I've read that this does NOT work (possibly read it on the DPDT page I linked above).
--- Quote ---How is the wiring done?
--- End quote ---
See DPDT link above.
--- Quote ---The KE72 has a plug for the Happ trackball, what about the spinner? Do you splice into this connection?
--- End quote ---
You definitely could if you only wanted the spinner and not the trackball . . .
--- Quote ---As a side note, are there any games that use two trackballs or two spinners? I've seen some boards that have two of each.
--- End quote ---
Sure . . .
Off the top of my head -
Dual trackballs - Marble Madness, C.A.B.A.L., Blood Bros., maybe ATAXX, Crystal Castles, others???
Dual Spinners - Blasteroids, Warlords (paddles, but anyway), and 360-degree driving games like badlands, Sprint, Indy Heat, etc. (probably others?)
--- Quote ---Thanks!! This is my first post, as I'm about ready to begin this project.
--- End quote ---
Good questions for a first post. You've obviously done a fair amount of homework.
--- Quote ---Right now I have everything I need except encoder and a cabinet. I plan on getting the CP done right then design the cab around that.
--- End quote ---
Bad idea! If you get the CP done, you'll have too much fun playing games to ever think about building the cab ;D (Just kidding, but others have said it before.)
quarterback:
--- Quote ---Alternately, you could use the I-PAC/4's shift function so that say if you pressed "Pause and Joystick 1 Right" at the same time, the Tab key would be sent.
--- End quote ---
It seems that a lot of these keyboard controllers have this "shift" option available to add more control options. I've got a question: Could you hook up a SINGLE button wired into TWO of the controller's inputs simultaneously (like Shift & "fire") to get the wanted response?
You know, lets say I have an ipac controller with 28 dedicated inputs, one of them a 'shift' key for the alternate code set (28 more codes) If I've got a big CP and I've used all the 28, could I also hook up additional single buttons wired to both the "shift" and the "coin1" inputs and another to the "shift" and "coin2" inputs to add additional single-key inputs? Or would doubling up the "coin1" input (which is already it's own dedicated button on my CP) screw things up?
Hiub1:
I don't know if you could screw things up like that, I would think that it should not be a problem, but DO NOT take my word for it as I do NOT know for sure. With my CP, every admin function is accessed through the shift key, and it gives the whole CP a less cluttered look, and way more authentic than having a whole bunch of buttons for computer functions. That is just my opinion, plus like Tiger said, people tend to LOVE smashing every button that they see, and if they access your control maps and such they could really screw up your set-up that you worked so hard for.
Let us know what you go with!
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