The Clinton gun ban has expired!

[patrickl]

Someone who thinks:
- a persons life is OK if he/she is stealing your stuff (vigilantism)
- black people killing black people is a fortunate thing (racism)
- there will come a time when he is called upon to "take up arms" (terrorism?)

All in all he is a prime example of someone who should not be allowed to own firearms (due to mental deficiencies and criminal tendencies) proclaiming his "right" to own firearms. He has to be a bad joke.


WOW.
You know, if you didnt misrepresent my positions or read into them whatever you feel necessary to read into them, then maybe you'd have something.

Oh...  know, if me didnt misrepresent your positions or read into them whatever me feel necessary to read into them, then maybe you'd have something?

- (taking) a persons life is OK if he/she is stealing your stuff (vigilantism)
Self-defense isnt vigilanteism.  You have the right to use deadly force when necessary to protect your rights.  This means it IS OK to take someone elses life, if necesary, to protect yourself.

We were discussing you, not me.

- black people killing black people is a fortunate thing
Please show me where I placed a moral value on the level of black-on-black crime in the US.

Are such questions on your mind often?

- there will come a time when he is called upon to "take up arms"
This sort of thing has happened several times in several places in the last 250 years.  No reason whatsoever to think it cant happen here, again.

Are you sure?

On the other hand I'm intrigued how real Americans feel on this subject.

Since I disagree with you, I'm not a "real American"?
Wow.

Do you believe it is normal to be not a" real American"?

I'm also unsure how guns are supposed to improve the outcome of burglaries, robberies or rapes.

This may be a stretch...   but by scaring away the bad guy - and failing that, rendering him physically incapable of committing the crim in question?

What does that suggest to you?

For the life of me I can't see how guns would help in any normal scenario

Oh - YOU can't imagine it, and therefore it cant be so.

Oh...  can't imagine it, and therefore it cant be so?

Either someone dies (or gets seriously hurt) or the crime ends as it would have been without the guns.
Or...the criminal runs away/ is wounded/is killed, and the victim is safe -as is usually the case.

I see.

The net result would be dead and wounded people against maybe a few less stolen items. That hardly sounds like a fair trade.

Whats wrong with wounded/dead criminals and uninjured victims?

Don't you ever say Hello?

I searched for statistics about how guns would make things better, but all I could find where figures on how they make things worse.

Try harder.   Guns are used to stop crime between 1.5 and 2 million times each year in the US.

What does that suggest to you?

Thats 1.5-2 million fewer victims.

I see.

The problem I have is when people think it's OK to use guns outside the shooting range and feel the need to keep their firearms at easy reach.

Tell me:
Of what use is my gun if I can only use it at the range and I cannot get to it?

Why do you ask?

That's where innocent people end up getting killed (I saw figures of 800 to 1000 people dying from firearm accidents earlier).

Yes.  ~800 asccidental deaths, 300,000,000 guns.
What % is that?  0.00026%
What problem, accidents?

Have you asked anyone else?

I guess you might make a joke of it and call it "natural selection", but then I assume you would think differently if your own kid would have found your gun.

I've been a responsible parent.   My kids, appropriate to their age, know how to safely deal with a gun.

What answer would please you the most?

[danny_galaga]

soliloquising

made it to the "S" section, have we  




"see? it says choo-choo-choose....and it's a train"  

hehe. got to that word some time ago...

hey, do you hear banjos?

[tep0583]

It IS nice to see the "script" used by the antis is exactly the same here as well.

1) scare
2) scare
3) scare
4) demonize
5) change the subject.

You have to throw in the manditory derogatory terms, such as "redneck" as well as accusations of racism. Apparently those can occur as part of #4, or as random comments.

Doesn't anyone ever change the playbook, or is that as good as it gets?

Nobody ever gets tired of calling names and racebaiting?

[TA Pilot]

Doesn't anyone ever change the playbook, or is that as good as it gets?  Nobody ever gets tired of calling names and racebaiting?


I, for one, am looking forward to Beaker's response.  Only the Powers That Be know what he'll come up with next.

Though I am sure you're right - he'll adhere to the script.

[tep0583]

The hunting comments are classic!

Does anyone REALLY think that its legal to hunt with a 30 round mag??

I get visions of a bunch of clowns, bounceing about in their 4x4, blasting away randomly as they plow through a field full of deer. Its an amusing thought, but about as realistic as most anything that comes out of Hollywood. (which is the olny place you'd see this sort of thing actually work) Deer are smart, they're not just going to stand still for you and if you miss with the first shot, you're not going to hit with any number you might send after them. On the off chance that you did, there'd be a huge chance of only wounding them and/or ruining the meat.

If you want to talk about "sporting", ditch the gun entirely and try it with a bow, not that there's any relevance to the topic at hand, but, since it was brought up......

[DrewKaree]

hehe. got to that word some time ago...

hey, do you hear banjos?

re:  comment #1 - liar, and I can tell because your pants are aflame  

re:  comment #2 - kinda sounding like  be ne neer neer neer neer neer ?

[patrickl]

Doesn't anyone ever change the playbook, or is that as good as it gets?  Nobody ever gets tired of calling names and racebaiting?


I, for one, am looking forward to Beaker's response.  Only the Powers That Be know what he'll come up with next.

Have you asked such questions before?

[patrickl]

Nobody ever gets tired of calling names and racebaiting?

Surely not everyone?

[patrickl]

The hunting comments are classic!

Does anyone REALLY think that its legal to hunt with a 30 round mag??

What would you like me to say in response to that?

[GGKoul]

This thread has been beaten to death.. please stop responding to it and let it fade away....

[hunky_artist]

we don't have to teach our children how to shoot real guns because we don't have guns in our houses

[TA Pilot]

This thread has been beaten to death.. please stop responding to it and let it fade away....


Wow.

Now THAT'S a gallant defense of your argument against "assault weapons"!!  

[TA Pilot]

we don't have to teach our children how to shoot real guns because we don't have guns in our houses


Who said anything about shooting them?  

I was talking about teaching them the ability to safely handle them - a skill they need whether you have a gun in the house or not.

As I said - what happens when your kid goes across the street?  Do -they- have a gun?  Do -they- know how to safely store one?  Are you willing to bet you kid's life on the answers?

Dont want to take my advice?  Thats fine.  Dont come here (or anywhere else) and whine about gun accidents when your irresponsibility caused your kid's grey matter to be splattered across a wall.

[patrickl]

This thread has been beaten to death.. please stop responding to it and let it fade away....


Wow.

Now THAT'S a gallant defense of your argument against "assault weapons"!!  

Why are you concerned about his argument against" assault weapons"?

[patrickl]

we don't have to teach our children how to shoot real guns because we don't have guns in our houses


Who said anything about shooting them?  

Why do you ask?

I was talking about teaching them the ability to safely handle them - a skill they need whether you have a gun in the house or not.

As I said - what happens when your kid goes across the street?  Do -they- have a gun?  Do -they- know how to safely store one?  Are you willing to bet you kid's life on the answers?

Have you asked anyone else? Why are you interested in whether or not we are willing to bet our kid's life on the answers?

Dont want to take my advice?  Thats fine.  Dont come here (or anywhere else) and whine about gun accidents when your irresponsibility caused your kid's grey matter to be splattered across a wall.

What does that suggest to you?

[danny_galaga]

hehe. got to that word some time ago...

hey, do you hear banjos?

re:  comment #1 - liar, and I can tell because your pants are aflame  

re:  comment #2 - kinda sounding like  be ne neer neer neer neer neer ?

yeah, that's the one  

[DrewKaree]

I LOVE it when we can pull a "Floyd10" and it isn't even noticed!

 

[danny_galaga]

I LOVE it when we can pull a "Floyd10" and it isn't even noticed!

 

they missed our secret hand-shake...

[GGKoul]

I LOVE it when we can pull a "Floyd10" and it isn't even noticed!

How about those cubs?

[patrickl]

I LOVE it when we can pull a "Floyd10" and it isn't even noticed!

How about those cubs?

Have you asked such questions before?

I guess they did see through my Eliza fun though  

[DrewKaree]

I LOVE it when we can pull a "Floyd10" and it isn't even noticed!

How about those cubs?

I saw that, but they had replied to it before I could...I was gonna say

hey batta batta batta batta sa wiing batta hecanthit hecanthit hecanthit hecanthit

[patrickl]

Wow, she sure is safe.

Or as Eliza would say: Don't you ever say Hello?

[hunky_artist]

As I said - what happens when your kid goes across the street?  Do -they- have a gun?  Do -they- know how to safely store one?  Are you willing to bet you kid's life on the answers?

...when will you get it through your thick head that in Britain.. nobody has guns. Our kids don't come across them... ever.

Do your kids know how to safely operate and maintain, say,  a space shuttle?

no??

why on earth not.

oh, hang on, nobody there has one.... so you DONT NEED TO.

see my point?

[TA Pilot]

...when will you get it through your thick head that in Britain.. nobody has guns. Our kids don't come across them... ever.

Really.
So...
I cant find one example of private gun ownership in the UK?
I cant find one example of an accidental gun death in the UK?
Right?


see my point?

Yes.
You're irresposnible.
But hey - its your kid, not mine.
Dont cry when his brains wind up all over a wall.

[TA Pilot]

hey TA pilot, how's that arcade game project coming along?


What arcade project?

"Everything Else"
"The Clinton gun ban has expired!"

[TA Pilot]

so it's not going so well then?

There isnt, one, so it can't be not going well.



well if you're stuck be sure to check out the other sections of this forum for tips...

Why?  I have no such project, and I do not plan to engage in any such project.

[patrickl]

so it's not going so well then?

There isnt, one, so it can't be not going well.



well if you're stuck be sure to check out the other sections of this forum for tips...

Why?  I have no such project, and I do not plan to engage in any such project.

Too busy teaching your kid how to defend himself from you?

[TA Pilot]

Too busy teaching your kid how to defend himself from you?

Why would they need to do that?

[patrickl]

Too busy teaching your kid how to defend himself from you?

Why would they need to do that?

What do you think?

[TA Pilot]

What do you think?

You're the one that seems to think they need to defend them selves from me.  You tell me.

[patrickl]

What do you think?

You're the one that seems to think they need to defend them selves from me.  You tell me.

Perhaps you would like to be the one that seems to think they need to defend them selves from you.

[TA Pilot]

Perhaps you would like to be the one that seems to think they need to defend them selves from you.

Perhaps you dont have anything intelligent to say on the subject, so you resort to petty inanity.

[TA Pilot]

don't be ashamed to ask if you're stuck...


I dont gove 2 shakes about gaming cabs.  This topic is about gun control.  See the topic header.

If you dont like it, dont read the replies.  Its really that simple - and since you havent added anything intelligent to the debate, you really arent going to hurt my feelings if you dont come back.

[TA Pilot]

when will you get it through your thick head that in Britain.. nobody has guns. Our kids don't come across them... ever.

Ok- the above is either a lie, or a statement made in complete ignorance.

In England and Wales at the end of 2001 there were 119,560 firearm certificates on issue covering 301,000 firearms (nearly three quarters are rifles), and 577,171 shotgun certificates covering 1,307,576 shotguns.  With the exception of the number of firearms covered, all these figures are lower than the previous years.  One percent and just over one and a half percent, respectively, of applications for new firearm and shotgun certificates made during 2001 were refused.

In Scotland at the end of 2003 there were 26,605 firearm certificates (an increase of 1 percent on 2002) on issue covering the possession of 60,440 firearms (a decrease of 0.3 percent), and 52,421 shotgun certificates (an increase of 1 percent) covering 125,395 shotguns (an increase of 2.3 percent).  For both firearm and shotgun certificates new applications were down on 2002.

Sources:
-Firearm Certificates by Alan Gray.  Chapter 9 in Crime in England and Wales, 2001/2002: Supplementary Volume.  January 2003.

-Firearms Certificates Statistics, Scotland, 2003.  Scottish Executive Statistical Bulletin. May 2004



Now that your cop-out has been demonstrated invalid,  tell me again why it is you, in the UK, think you can shirk your responsibilities and do not need to teach your kids how to safely deal with firearms?

[patrickl]

Perhaps you would like to be the one that seems to think they need to defend them selves from you.

Perhaps you dont have anything intelligent to say on the subject, so you resort to petty inanity.

We were discussing you, not me.

[hunky_artist]

in all of my travelling and in all the villages, countryside and cities i've been in up and down the length of this country i had NEVER come across ANYBODY who own any kind of firearm.

Nor has anybody I know

I'll modify my original statement. I dont mean nobody has rifles, I mean we as a country dont.

the examples you gave of people with shotguns, are all in the deep countryside, on farms or country estates. .....acres of land with a farmer or estate owner hunting grouse and the like.

the huge majority (and i really do mean majority) of people in this country live in and around cities.... nobody in cities and normal villages has firearms. nobody.

you see why we dont need to teach our kids how to hold guns now?

they're not gonna need it

why can't you accept that no child in normal british existance, apart from those growing up on farms or country estates, needs or ever in their life has access to, a firearm.

when was the last time your kids had access to a blue whale on public land.

oh hang on, thats something you can accept doesn't happen.

accept that this doesnt happen. we live here, you dont

[TA Pilot]

I'll modify my original statement. I dont mean nobody has rifles, I mean we as a country dont.

Clearly, you , as a country, do.   Several hundred thousand of them.



the examples you gave of people with shotguns, are all in the deep countryside, on farms or country estates. .....acres of land with a farmer or estate owner hunting grouse and the like.

Yeah?   I thought they didnt have any guns.
Change your mind?



you see why we dont need to teach our kids how to hold guns now?

No.   I dont.  Your country has a significant number of guns, and there isnt any any way to support the argument that your kids will never come across one.



why can't you accept that no child in normal british existance, apart from those growing up on farms or country estates, needs or ever in their life has access to, a firearm.

Lesse...  because its not so?  Just a few hours ago, you were arguing that no one had guns...  now you;re arguing that they're only on estates, etc.   Plainly you arent a master of fact, and therefore your assertions are, at best, circumspect.

And you're missing a significant part of the point - "access" isnt "my dad had a gun in the safe".  "Access" is "hey!! Look whst I found!!"


The very first time your kid comes home with his head blown off, you'll understand how wrong you were and how right I am.

[DrewKaree]

don't be ashamed to ask if you're stuck, you know. we're here to help. there's heaps of people here you are excellent with software, others are great cabinet makers. me, i'm a bit of a jack of all trades. we've scared him off recently but paigeoliver is one of the guys to ask if you want to buy a genuine cab...

#1 - LMAO @ danny

#2 - I don't consider myself a "great" cabinet maker, but if you say so....

#3 - I agree that you're a jack, and we did NOT scare paige off, Mr Mehoff.

#4 - When is your next trip stateside?  You've GOT to come by...you can't stay over, but I'll let you sleep on the porch...mebbe even give you a newspaper to cover up with  

[DrewKaree]

accept that this doesnt happen. we live here, you dont

said the Brit commenting on U.S. weapons pollicies.  

You REALLY should hit preview before posting...remember, a shut mouth gathers no foot.

TA, I SOOOO can't believe you passed over that comment FIRST!  You are slipping, man!  That rationale invalidates any of his comments!

[shmokes]

TaPilot,

What the Hell?  Who are you?  How many kids do you have?  What city were you born in?  I don't believe that there is any life on Mars.  Guns kill.  Nobody in the history of mankind has ever managed to kill anyone without a gun.  If there were no guns there would be no murder.....EVER.  The moon landing was not a fake.  Clay pigeons should be illegal.

Shmokes

p.s.  I just love to see these jarring replies of TaPilot's where he compulsively responds to EVERY single sentence in the prior post (though, almost comically refrains from using the "quote" feature of the message board).  I just figured I'd try to add some liveliness to his posts by giving him some nice sentences to respond to, one-by-one.  I'm especially looking forward to his response to "What the hell?"  I'm predicting a classic.