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cp interface planning?
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: carl on March 23, 2004, 07:42:39 pm ---that's a little more $ than I was hoping. Is there any way to get the same functionality, and spend less? The trackball and spinner are lower in priority for me. Highest would be the buttons and rotary joysticks.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I'm better at the doing this on the cheap options than the other stuff.
--- Quote ---so let's take this one step further, I'll make some choices...
--- End quote ---
Well some of your choices eliminated the low-cost options I presented, but I'll try to post the alternatives again.
--- Quote ---Rotary Joysticks---------
2 Happ mechanical #50-5618-00 ($43ea) as primary sticks
http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50561800.htm
requires Druin's interface ($45) + six switch inputs per stick
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/
--- End quote ---
Not much you can do here, unless you went with the optical joysticks and eliminated Druin's interface. I think I would prefer the mechanicals. The Happ is a much better stick for primary use than the SNK LS-30's and the LS-30's are about the same price new unless you find a deal on E-bay.
--- Quote ---Optical controls ---------
1 Happ trackball 56-0100-10
3" TBALL ASSY RED STD HARNESS ($96)
http://www.happcontrols.com/trackballs/560100xx.htm
--- End quote ---
3" Wico Trackball ($50)
2.25" Wico or ultimarc trackball ($25) www.wicothesource.com
Trackball mounting plate ($10), www.therealbobroberts.com
or
I'm using a $4 USB PC trackball for my games, but it kinda sucks.
--- Quote ---1 oscar Vortex spinner
$59 ($16 knob not included)
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/vortex/
--- End quote ---
I like the Vortex, but if you want to save money - OSCAR model one spinner ($43) and $6 rubber knob.
--- Quote ---requires opti-pac ($40)
http://www.ultimarc.com/optipac1.html
--- End quote ---
Requires 2 OSCAR interfaces and 1 harness kit - $26
or
Requires 1 OSCAR interface and 1 Harness kit and $3 DPDT Switch - $20
or
Requres 1 OSCAR interface and $3 DPDT switch and splice your own wires to trackball - $12
or
Folded into the cost of the mini-pac, but I couldn't find it, (more below)
--- Quote ---Buttons--------------------
12 happ ultimates ($1.75ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/539200xx.htm
--- End quote ---
Ultimates have the vertical microswitch, you want the horizontal microswitch ones (I show $1.85 each, $1.75 each in 100 lots)
www.therealbobroberts.com $1.45 each
--- Quote ---2 happ player buttons ($1.95ea)
http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/589111l1ply.htm
--- End quote ---
www.therealbobroberts.com ($3.20/pair)
--- Quote ---requires i-pac1 keyboard interface ($43)
http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html
--- End quote ---
$43 + $12 shipping, didn't see the mini-pac on www.ultimarc.com, but that could save you money on optical interfaces. (especially if you don't mind hacking a hard drive IDE cable rather than buying the pre-made harness)
KeyWiz MAX - $34.95 plus $6-7 shipping www.groovygamegear.com
KeyWiz ECO (if you don't mind soldering) $26.95 plus $6-7 shipping (same place)
--- Quote --------------------------
total $310
--- End quote ---
I didn't total how much I might have saved you. Those are my recomendations, what you do with them is up to you and your wallet.
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: Tiger-Heli on March 24, 2004, 07:30:43 am ---$43 + $12 shipping, didn't see the mini-pac on www.ultimarc.com, but that could save you money on optical interfaces. (especially if you don't mind hacking a hard drive IDE cable rather than buying the pre-made harness)
KeyWiz MAX - $34.95 plus $6-7 shipping www.groovygamegear.com
KeyWiz ECO (if you don't mind soldering) $26.95 plus $6-7 shipping (same place)
--- End quote ---
Found the mini-pac info here - http://www.ultimarc.com/minipac.html (had to search the I-PAC forum to find it).
$29 for the basic board isn't too bad (more than a KW MAX when you include shipping, though, plus you have to hack an IDE cable.
$69 for the optical version with harness is more than you would pay with a standard encoder and one of the oscar interfaces.
FWIW.
Lilwolf:
btw... with all those controllers... consider hot-swapping... the control panel will be jammed packed and you might have troubles playing with some controllers because of all the others being close (like trackballs you need some space on all sides to get a good spin on it)
My feelings on the SNKs.
NOTE: I haven't used the druins board... but I HAVE used the MK64 and I believe they are the same.
Don't try to use them. Try to free up 24 inputs + 8 for the directions (I know its hard... but hear me out).
Analog+ mame has direct support for SNK joysticks. This is AMAZING! When you start moving around, it pops to the EXACT location it should be. When playing games where you need to move 3 forward fire, 3 back and fire FAST... you can't do it with the others.
why?
Mame has the rotary games hooked directly to the mouse... And all key controls are actually setup as a normal key -> analog controller... ie, how long you hold it down is how far it moves.
So MK (and I believe druins) hold down keys for a set amount of time. And you adjust. And they keep track of how many times you moved it... So the rotation is slow.... to make sure that they update the analog controller.... So you click 3 times... the board cache 3 moves, press one, wait, press two, wait, press three.
NOW... Analog+ mame ALSO has a 'L', 'R' setting that allows it to take the single L and single R at face value... no analog.... and with the MK64 you can speed it up CONSIDERABLY... (I was successful to up to 8ms)... and it works.... and it was MUCH MUCH BETTER...
but while I was rewiring... I decided to rewire one of mine to have all 12 going to the MK and try the new direct connect...
and there was a HUGE differece AGAIN. It IS better then the analog+ mame and straight "l" and "r" and MUCH MUCH MUCH better then normal mame.
but...
it doesn't currently work with ikari games... about 1/2 of the games get lost after a few turns. But TimeSoldier is fun to play again (I couldn't play it at all with normal mame... and it was good with analog+ mame, but PERFECT with the direct connects)..
So... the options (for MK64s at least)
1) Mame + timed clicks
adv- normal mame build.
adv- only takes 2 inputs on an encoder.
dis- can only turn at a certain rate.
dis- obviously not playing the original game
2) Analog + with 'l' and 'r' from converter
adv- feels more authentic
adv- speed up turning exactly
adv- only takes 2 inputs on an encoder
dis- have to be able to change the key press speed (mk64 can do it... anyone with a druins board?)
dis- not quite there in feel
dis- analog+ mame sometimes a few versions old
3) Analog+ with true 12 inputs into the board
adv- feels arcade PERFECT!
adv- spin as fast or as slow... and always in the right location
adv- makes some games/weapons playable (sword)
adv- once setup... no messing with digital -> analog %s
dis- need 16 inputs PER joystick (12 + 4 for directions)
dis- need to follow some directions to get it confured
dis- analog+ mame sometimes a few versions old
Tiger-Heli:
--- Quote from: Lilwolf on March 24, 2004, 08:27:00 am ---btw... with all those controllers... consider hot-swapping... the control panel will be jammed packed and you might have troubles playing with some controllers because of all the others being close (like trackballs you need some space on all sides to get a good spin on it)
My feelings on the SNKs.
NOTE: I haven't used the druins board... but I HAVE used the MK64 and I believe they are the same.
--- End quote ---
Lilwolf - Good info. I didn't realize the IKARI games weren't working with this method. Are they just broken with the current Analog Plus, or the previous versions as well.
I just wanted to clarify some things that the original poster might not realize -
The MK64 www.mk64.com/ron was a 64 input encoder that is no longer available.
To do what Lilwolf is recommending would require an I-PAC/4. You are talking 32 inputs JUST for the joysticks, without any buttons or coin start inputs.
OTOH, you would not need the druin board and the cost of the I-PAC/4 is probably less than the cost of the druin board and one of the other encoders.
Worth looking into . . .
carl:
wow! Thanks for the activity on my little post here guys... your providing some great detailed info!
I had all but thrown in the towel last night when I totaled up all the additional costs I still have (pc monitor, speakers, grates, coin door, paint, t-molding, etc). But since reading yoru latest info, and backing off on my grandiose plans... it seems do-able again.
Let's see if I can make another stab at this:
Rotary Joysticks-
2 Happ mechanical ($43ea)
Dumping the spinner for now-
Might toss the trackball too, or use one of the mouse hack ones that tie into the PS2/USB port (where did you get your $4 USB one?)
Buttons-
12 horz micros switch from therealroberts (1.45ea)
two player buttons, therealroberts (3.20pr)
I-PAC4 USB
(56 inputs) $69.00
(using 32 direct inputs from jsticks)
----------------------------------------------------
Total $180
A little compromise and a lot of smarts (from you guys) and that's a decent savings ($130)!
now on the joysticks... Liwolf, are you saying that using direct connects from the mech happ rotary joysticks will work in analogue mame nicely... and that I won't need the optical or druins encoders? But the single con would be that it;s doesn't work with Ikari? If so, what happens next? Where is the problem with Ikari? Is it in MAME? Can it/will it be fixed int he future?
Thanks,
carl
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