Can someone Identify what mods were done to this TankStick?

[arcadesteve123]

I bought this tankstick off of marketplace but I never seen this layout/configuration before...Would anyone know who or what mods were made so I can learn more about what was done?

[PL1]

Would anyone know who or what mods were made so I can learn more about what was done?

No idea who modded it, but the two most obvious changes are the buttons ==> LED buttons and the X-Arcade encoder + wiring harness ==> two gamepad-style encoders that can also power the button LEDs.

Since the encoder PCBs are different from each other, they probably have different USB IDs which should make it easier to avoid the USB device renumbering issue.

You may want to trace the USB cables and mark which one is for P1, which is for P2 and which is for the trackball.


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Interesting indeed...from the obvious an overlay was put over the original tankstick, the green usb board is a EG Starts brand...so it does look like a lighted button kit was added. Is that right black usb board the tankstick brand? It also appears that the two buttons above that black usb board were removed also. 

I was wondering why the led power was clipped...probably not needed but coming off the trackball module I wonder what those 4 wires were used for that were clipped also. The guy I bought it off of said it was new and he never used it and wanted to build a cab but instead bought already completed machines.

With the labels on the buttons are they to signify something like that is what they are mapped to or are they just for something else?

Scott...would you know if I wanted to add a spinner would a spinner connect to any of the usb boards or does the spinner have its own dedicated usb board/cable?

[arcadesteve123]

I did find something on the web that might explain the trackball wires maybe...

--------------
Trackball Assembly Installation Instructions & Wiring Print
Modified on: Tue, 30 Jul, 2019 at 11:35 AM

The Trackball assembly may look complicated because it has many wires and connectors coming out of it, but there actually only 5 types of wires with several duplicates of each. Here are the functions for each wire color respectively:

Black = All black wires are ground (use a ground with each wire below)
White =  Mouse Button 1 (mouse 0 in MAME)
Brown = Mouse Button 2 (mouse button 1 in MAME)
Orange = Mouse Button 3 (mouse button 2 in MAME)
Blue = Horizontal Disabler (use for perfect straight shots in Golf or Bowling)

[PL1]

Is that right black usb board the tankstick brand?

No, it doesn't look like an X-Arcade encoder.
https://shop.xgaming.com/collections/arcade-parts



It's almost certainly a gampad encoder like the EG Starts, but a different model/color.
- The red connectors are usually for LEDs. (should be marked on the board)

With the labels on the buttons are they to signify something like that is what they are mapped to or are they just for something else?

Yes, the labels indicate the function each button was mapped to.

You'll need to map the controls in your emulator program(s) accordingly.

Scott...would you know if I wanted to add a spinner would a spinner connect to any of the usb boards or does the spinner have its own dedicated usb board/cable?

A spinner is an optical device so you'll need an optical (mouse) encoder.
https://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Optical_Encoders

The trackball has a built-in optical encoder for the trackball X- and Y-axes, but doesn't have the connections/inputs to add a spinner.
- Unlike microswitch controls, you can't piggyback the optical input data lines for a spinner on the data lines for the X-axis because the data lines going HIGH/LOW are how the encoder knows if/when the axis moves.  For example, if both A and B are LOW (phase 1) then B goes HIGH (phase 2), that tells the encoder that the axis has moved one step right (phase 1 to 2).
  Moving the axis to the right outputs the pattern . . . 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, . . . left to right in the image below.
  Moving the axis to the left outputs the pattern   . . . 4, 3, 2, 1, 4, 3, 2, 1, . . . right to left in the image below.



The TT2 (GroovyGameGear) and SpinTrak (Ultimarc) spinners have USB optical encoders either included or available.


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

I took out the board as the model was on the bottom.

[arcadesteve123]

So what I can gather thus far is that maybe the original buyer bought it and then had it modified with the overlay and the change out of the original tankstick buttons (that I think are better quality) then these cheapy lighted ones.  I am thinking the mods probably were around $100 on top of the tankstick and labor? 

I did buy a GRS USB Button Hole Spinner and will take out one of the bottom buttons for it.

I paid $100 for the tankstick and after knowing all the mods...eh...probably could have chewed him down a bit more.

[arcadesteve123]

I did buy this GRS USB Button Hole Spinner and am I to assume that it does not require a usb board?  Seems simple connection to it and hopefully windows will recognize it?

[arcadesteve123]

Oh look...there is a super tiny manual link for a manual on a business card included in the box.

[pbj]

Take all that art crap off of it, replace the buttons, and put an X-Arcade encoder back in it.  Luckily they sell all those parts.  If you get on their mailing list, they're constantly going on sale.

[arcadesteve123]

lol...the overlay is in new condition and I don't really care about that but I will at least try out these cheapy buttons and see if they function how I expect them to but good to know that parts for the tankstick are still available!

[PL1]

I did buy this GRS USB Button Hole Spinner and am I to assume that it does not require a usb board?  Seems simple connection to it and hopefully windows will recognize it?

Yes, Windows will recognize it as a HID mouse -- no special drivers needed.

That spinner uses a Hall Effect sensor (magnetic, slightly less accurate) instead of optical sensors.

If it works good enough for you in Arkanoid (the highest resolution spinner game) after you adjust the sensitivity in MAME,  then it will work well enough for all the other games.
- The GRS spinner is 1024 counts per turn vs. 1200 counts per turn for the TT2 and SpinTrak, so you'll need to calculate each game's sensitivity accordingly.
http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/Spinner_Turn_Count
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,164017.0.html

The USB encoder is the blue PCB on the bottom of the spinner.
- The large connector is the USB connection.
- The small connection is for mouse buttons. L = left click.  R = right click.  G = ground.






Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Soooooo....after all the assistance (Scott  ) I hooked it all up and it works great.  Yea...I did have one of the buttons sticking but took it out and back in and now working fine.  Seems like you can't crank the plastic nut that tight or things get wonky. The button spinner was so simple to setup where I really didn't want to break the hole drill out etc.

I got an smack-down education on how the inner workings of these things work with this post...Still haven't found a good wiring diagram on the microswitch as to what connects to what but read somewhere if you reverse the polarity the lighted buttons they only light when pushed? Anyhu, now back to the diy stand I will be making to incorporate the tankstick. Thanks again to PL1! I'll post a pic when completely done....May the games begin!

[PL1]

Glad to assist.   

Still haven't found a good wiring diagram on the microswitch as to what connects to what but read somewhere if you reverse the polarity the lighted buttons they only light when pushed?

Check out WannabeJoy's thread for a number of tips and ideas including the diagrams below.
https://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,151577.0/all.html

She was using a sound board instead of gamepad encoder, but things should work similarly if your encoder is an "active low" device -- input is normally pulled HIGH (5v) until LOW (ground) is applied to it which triggers the output.
- You'll need to adjust the wiring if your encoder is "active high" -- input is normally LOW until HIGH (5v) is applied to it which triggers the output -- and many of the cheap encoders like yours are.
- If you want to find out if your encoder is "active low" (ground common on outer rail) or "active high" (5v common on outer rail), test it with your multimeter like Melvinbates did in this thread.
- If you're not sure how to change the wiring diagram for "active high", just mention which option you want.



Looks like your LED buttons have a microswitch with 3 tabs (NO, NC, and COM) and have the LED on the "stirrup" tabs.
- If you have wires connected to all three tabs of the microswitch and only one "stirrup", it's probably connected like diagram #2.




Scott

[CamdenTate]

That layout looks unique! It could be a custom mod or a lesser-known variant. Have you checked for any branding, labels, or unusual wiring? Posting on arcade modding forums or Reddit might help identify the modifications. Looks like a cool find! My job requires me to send large software installation files to clients, and most email services just don’t work for that. Filemail has been a lifesaver! It allows me to send large files without any hassle, and my clients can download them instantly. No more worrying about storage limits or slow uploads—just fast, efficient file transfers.

[PL1]

 


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Diy stand and tankstick together again!

[arcadesteve123]

However...paradise is short lived as it seems that my mapping is now off.  When putting everything back together I swapped usb ports on the computer and somehow messed up the tankstick player controls. P1 on the left is now on the right and P2 is on the left as shown...ugh.

Hopefully there is an easy workaround?

[PL1]

However...paradise is short lived as it seems that my mapping is now off.  When putting everything back together I swapped usb ports on the computer and somehow messed up the tankstick player controls. P1 on the left is now on the right and P2 is on the left as shown...ugh.

Hopefully there is an easy workaround?

This is the USB device renumbering issue I mentioned earlier.

Since the encoder PCBs are different from each other, they probably have different USB IDs which should make it easier to avoid the USB device renumbering issue.

You may want to trace the USB cables and mark which one is for P1, which is for P2 and which is for the trackball.

First gamepad that Windows sees is assigned Joy 1, the second is Joy 2, etc.

The quick and dirty way to (probably) fix it is to:
- Unplug both gamepad USB cables.  Label them P1 and P2 for future reference.
- Reboot the system.
- Plug in P1 gamepad.
- Wait a few seconds then plug in P2 gamepad.

If the gamepad numbers are always reversed on reboot, do the above but swap USB sockets for P1 and P2.

If that doesn't work, you'll have to do it the hard way -- find your two gamepad encoder IDs and use them with MAME's "mapdevice" function in a controller configuration XML file.
https://docs.mamedev.org/advanced/devicemap.html


Scott

[pbj]

Get the X-Arcade encoder and you won't have these issues.

Your issues are why I always used a joystick encoder for one player, and a keyboard encoder for the other.

 

[arcadesteve123]

Great points...and was almost going down that road ripping them all out and replacing with the tankstick components but Scott's option 1 (plug in usb left first) did the trick! 

Ok...back on track with a couple more questions (will it ever end) lol....So it is my understanding that a game like Pacman which only had one player controls...for two players, I am unable to map the Joystick P2.  It only will respond to P1 controls.  A game like Street Fighter which is a true two player game I am able to play correctly.  Would that be a correct assumption?  Are you only able to play on P1 controls for a one player control game?

Lastly, looking at my mapping of the game...should the joysticks be aligned up? Like when I push up on the joystick, should it say up on the mapping?  Is that logic physical like are the joysticks not mounted correctly or I would change the wires on the usb controller accordingly...or does it even matter....Thanks again everyone!

[PL1]

So it is my understanding that a game like Pacman which only had one player controls...for two players, I am unable to map the Joystick P2.  It only will respond to P1 controls.  A game like Street Fighter which is a true two player game I am able to play correctly.  Would that be a correct assumption?  Are you only able to play on P1 controls for a one player control game?

For games that have alternating play like Pac-Man, the "Upright" cabinet only has one joystick so P1 and P2 alternate using that joystick.
- If you look at the controls in MAME, you'll notice that there are inputs for P2 joystick as well.
- If you set the dipswitch/machine config to "Cocktail", the screen will flip for P2 and P2's controls will accept inputs.
- If you want P2's controls to work with the "Upright" cab configuration, you can double-map the P1 inputs.
- To double-map an input, highlight it, press ENTER, press the first button/joystick (maps the first to the input), press ENTER again, press the second button/joystick (maps the first OR second to the input).  If you mess up, press either DELETE or ENTER then ESC (depends on which version of MAME you're using) to set the input to "None", then map the input again.
- The down-side to double-mapping controls is that if a player presses a button during the other player's turn, MAME will accept it as if the other player had pressed the button.

For games that had simultaneous play like Street Fighter, the cab had two sets of controls and MAME has separate inputs for them.

should the joysticks be aligned up? Like when I push up on the joystick, should it say up on the mapping?  Is that logic physical like are the joysticks not mounted correctly or I would change the wires on the usb controller accordingly...or does it even matter....

Uhh . . . Wow!   

You can use that messed up button and joystick setup in MAME, but some front ends and emulators are not as easy to remap.

Given how portable the Tankstick is, I'd recommend fixing the messed up wiring order so you have the option of easily plugging it into another system or taking it to a friend's house.

Easiest way is to change where the wires plug into the encoder inputs.
- Remember that with joysticks, if you press right the actuator will hit the microswitch on the left.



Once you've got the wiring right, it will be easier to do a fresh install of MAME than to try to manually return all of the currently mis-mapped inputs to the defaults.  The MAME defaults should work for most of the games you want to play.

Once you've got MAME working right, you can consider what Front End, if any, you want to use.


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Amazing information Scott...You have your own YouTube channel or something?...would love to know how you are so experienced with this stuff...Anyhu, you have been a great resource for myself and others in this forum!  Thanks again!

[PL1]

Glad to assist.   

You pick up a few things after four and a half decades working/playing with schematics and electronics, often down to component level, with a decade and a half of that time reading and posting on the forums here.

No YouTube channel for me, but I did open an account on GitHub to, among other things, help Jakobud with his skipstartupframes plugin for MAME that he announced with this thread in the Software sub-forum.  Galaga normally takes about 12 seconds to boot up and run system tests.  With the ssf plugin, it only takes about one second, plus you don't have to see the bootup video test or hear the sound test.  Unlike save states, ssf works with every game in MAME v0.253 and newer.  You may want to check it out.   

 


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Very cool...wasn't aware that Galaga took that long to load...great game. So now I will take your advice and take the tankstick into surgery mode and correct the connections on the usb boards. I was bummed out that Dragon's Lair 1/2 .chd's weren't included in my Rom set...so that quest will continue for that one and I also noticed one of the blue buttons doesn't work but I can swap that one out with the one I took out for the spinner...GEEEEEZ All this to relive a bit of old school arcade memories! 

[PL1]

wasn't aware that Galaga took that long to load

There are games that take much longer like the DECO Cassette System ones -- that system loads the game from an audio cassette, not ROMs.
- Normal load time for DECO Cassette Flying Ball (cflyball) is about 3:33 versus 13 seconds with the ssf plugin.
- One of the faster loading ones from that driver is Lock 'n' Chase (clocknch) that only takes 2:27 vs. 9 seconds with ssf.

All this to relive a bit of old school arcade memories! 

Yeah . . . Welcome to the nuthouse.  The rabbit hole goes way deeper than you imagine.      


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

This is for anyone else that will endure this process in the future...but it appears that the joystick is a modular connection with the a common ground brown wire connecting all the microswitches of the joysticks and what I did was to just switch the other 4 lead connections so that they correctly correspond to the actual mapped movement.   Now up, down, left and right are correct.

I think this one is a wrap guys...thanks again for all the help/education and hopes it helps others going down this path! 

[PL1]

I think this one is a wrap guys

Did you fix the button connectors, too?

Other than P1B4, P2B3, and P2B4, they are in the wrong order.



Also, have you already mapped your admin buttons in the MAME "Input(General)" menu?  If so, which gamepad inputs did you use?
- The image shows the P1 Start, P2 Start and P1 Coin inputs mapped to the MAME default keystrokes "1", "2", and "5".  I assume P2 Coin is mapped to "6", right?
- Your gamepad encoders can't output keystrokes because they aren't hybrid USB devices like an IPac which is a combination keyboard, gamepad, and mouse encoder.
- If your encoder has a "Start" input, use that for "Start" in MAME.
- If your encoder has a "Select" input, use that for "Coin" in MAME.

For minimum remapping, MAME assumes a default button layout with B1 in upper left with the rest in a raster pattern like this:
    1  2  3
    4  5  6


Scott

[arcadesteve123]

Yes Sir!  I only had a handful of games loaded so no big deal mapping them again....Thanks again for you responding with your knowledge and patience!