Fretsaw project gallery: 'Creature from the Black Lagoon' added

[Zebidee]

... and you accuse me of wasting space, talking about important & relevant issues, on your thread?

[yamatetsu]

[Zebidee]

saw that coming

[Mike A]

Cut it out.

[bobbyb13]

By the time we hit the Viking it was obvious I would never have the emotional fortitude for this endeavour.
Good on ya.

The Peanuts and Star Wars ones will always be winners.
Combining the two is like cheating from a marketing standpoint.

Sell them if you can (or must) but have fun with it anyway.

And this is hilarious of course.

Cut it out.

[yamatetsu]

By the time we hit the Viking it was obvious I would never have the emotional fortitude for this endeavour.

That's why most people do this kind of thing as a side project. Chip away at it for an hour or two, do that for some days, when you are fed up with it, do another, smaller project to get a sense of accomplishment when you finish that. Then it's chipping at the viking again.

The Peanuts and Star Wars ones will always be winners.
Combining the two is like cheating from a marketing standpoint.

It's also doubling the chance of getting sued for copyright infringement   

[RandyT]

I mean no offense whatsoever, but I'm torn when I look at these.  While I'm absolutely amazed at the skill and patience you must have to do them, when I see them, I can't help but think "that's why they invented laser cutters."

Someone with a laser cutter could knock these out in less than a half hour, and if done correctly, the end product would be virtually indistinguishable from something a skilled person spent weeks on.

So while I understand the value and appreciation for "hand-made", I still find myself asking why, when amazing tools exist to produce the same results with hugely less effort.

Is it just something to pass the time?

[Zebidee]

Got any good suggestions?

Reckon that, if yamatetsu sold a few of these works, might have a few dollars to go towards better tools like a decent laser cutter.

[pbj]

Is it just something to pass the time?

Have you considered a Pi?

[Zebidee]

mmmmm

[yamatetsu]

So while I understand the value and appreciation for "hand-made", I still find myself asking why, when amazing tools exist to produce the same results with hugely less effort.

Is it just something to pass the time?

Yep, it's a hobby. There is something very satisfying about turning something that's in your head into something real with your own hands vs just pressing a button. I went more than 40 years telling myself that I'm no good at doing something like "art" or woodworking, now that I actually tried doing some stuff I found out that it's not so hard after all, and it's fun. I'm catching up.

There also is a practical reason for doing things by hand: Money and space. I can't afford a laser cutter and I don't have the space for it anyway.

[RandyT]

Yep, it's a hobby. There is something very satisfying about turning something that's in your head into something real with your own hands vs just pressing a button. I went more than 40 years telling myself that I'm no good at doing something like "art" or woodworking, now that I actually tried doing some stuff I found out that it's not so hard after all, and it's fun. I'm catching up.

There also is a practical reason for doing things by hand: Money and space. I can't afford a laser cutter and I don't have the space for it anyway.

Well, it's more than just pressing a button.  Without the design files, you can press all the buttons you want and it won't do anything for you .  I.e. producing something like this with a laser is still "art", or at least it can be, just a different form.  Based on what I see from your works, I'm guessing a computer is already part of the process anyway, unless you are hand drawing the pattern on the material to begin with.

A small 40watt import laser will probably fit on your existing bench, and they don't cost all that much.  If you like tinkering with your tools, that one should be right up your alley.  And like Zebidee stated, you could probably sell some of your works and generate the cash for one. 

But I do understand that there can be therapeutic benefits for some in taking the "long road."  If the point is the journey, I get that. 

[bobbyb13]

I really like the whole "by hand" method of this.
One of my grandads was a pattern maker at a metal foundry, shaping the parts -out of wood!- to cast all kinds of things in metal.
Want to talk about careers that have gone by.
I used to enjoy watching him make some pretty detailed stuff in his home workshop, and the fretsaw hobby reminds me of those things.
I have fond memories of this type of work myself.
For me there is a zen aspect to tasks like these that can't be replicated with a lot of technology interjected.

The core of it is like any of the other stuff we do here really, yeah?
Get the right tools, learn the techniques to use them well and practice until you get what you like.

So while I understand the value and appreciation for "hand-made", I still find myself asking why, when amazing tools exist to produce the same results with hugely less effort.

Is it just something to pass the time?

Yep, it's a hobby. There is something very satisfying about turning something that's in your head into something real with your own hands vs just pressing a button. I went more than 40 years telling myself that I'm no good at doing something like "art" or woodworking, now that I actually tried doing some stuff I found out that it's not so hard after all, and it's fun. I'm catching up.

There also is a practical reason for doing things by hand: Money and space. I can't afford a laser cutter and I don't have the space for it anyway.

[yamatetsu]

Well, it's more than just pressing a button.  Without the design files, you can press all the buttons you want and it won't do anything for you .  I.e. producing something like this with a laser is still "art", or at least it can be, just a different form.  Based on what I see from your works, I'm guessing a computer is already part of the process anyway, unless you are hand drawing the pattern on the material to begin with.

A small 40watt import laser will probably fit on your existing bench, and they don't cost all that much.  If you like tinkering with your tools, that one should be right up your alley.  And like Zebidee stated, you could probably sell some of your works and generate the cash for one.

I'm using a computer for converting images into patterns, which I then spray-glue onto the wood. But that is just the prep work, from then on it's manual labor. I'm not opposed to using computers, but to me using the computer to do everything is like producing something vs. making something. Making something is much more rewarding.

As for a small laser fitting on my existing bench, nope. My "bench" basically consists of two wooden boxes clamped together, giving me a surface area of 33x30cm to work on, which is about one A4 sheet and a half. I don't have a dedicated work space, I'm doing my fretwork in my bedroom, sitting on my bed and sawing merrily away.

For me there is a zen aspect to tasks like these

Yep, right until some delicate part breaks when sanding. Then it switches over to being a much more mundane aspect, like swearing and cursing 

[RandyT]

I guess the way I view it is that the laser would only be taking the place of the saw.  After being cut on the laser, there would still be quite a bit of "artistic" work (sanding, shaping, painting and final assembly) to get the end result. 

But yes, if that is the extent of your working environment, and you enjoy the process, it's certainly not a wrong way to do it. 

[Mike A]

What he is doing takes mountains more skill than a stupid laser.

I have a laser. It is super easy and I could teach a monkey to do it in an afternoon.

Keep posting fretsaw stuff. It is cool.

[pbj]

I could teach a monkey to do it in an afternoon.

But could you teach a grouchy man how to be happy?  I really do not understand the hostility this thread has provoked.  There's so little activity that I'm happy to see people doing anything at this point.

[Mike A]

Then it switches over to being a much more mundane aspect, like swearing and cursing 

That sounds a lot like my work flow.

[Zebidee]

There's so little activity that I'm happy to see people doing anything at this point.

100% with this.

[RandyT]

What he is doing takes mountains more skill than a stupid laser.

I have a laser. It is super easy and I could teach a monkey to do it in an afternoon.

Yes, but would he survive the ordeal?

[yamatetsu]

"Coffee ?"

28,8 x 21,2cm, backer board 8mm, owl 3mm



Another gift for my sister. Thought this was going to be an easy one, but cutting, sanding and glueing those tiny little pieces was a PITA. But what the heck, it turned out really nice, now on to the next one.

[yamatetsu]

"Batman"

60 x 85cm, backer board 6mm, Batman 4mm.




A4 sheet for size.




4 months on and off, 100+ hours, never again. Looks absolutely amazing, though.

[yamatetsu]

"The Inspector"

21 x 14,5cm, backer board 4mm, inspector 4mm



This was a fun little scrapboard project. Looks simple enough, until you try to keep the parts and their outlines parallel while the sawblade has the tendency to just veer off the line without any apparent reason. Look at the outline of the magnifying glass, those dents are not intentional.
Battling the sawblade for hours made this a chore. Anyway, it turned out well, that's all that matters.

[Zebidee]

The dents make it more authentic!

[yamatetsu]

I wouldn't mind them so much if it was my own ineptitude that caused them.
Look at the top right corner of sergeant Deux-Deux's hat. See that strange gap? That was literally the first cut I made. I drilled a hole, threaded the sawblade in, aligned the blade with the outline, started sawing and the sucker immediately veered off the line. Since the blade is very sharp and the board very thin, it took a me a moment to realize it and by that time the cut was well under way. Then I had to wrestle the blade towards the line, being mindful of not overcompensating. This went on for hours. It just absolutely sucks to botch something though you're doing nothing wrong.

[pbj]

I have some broken piece of jigsaw blade that I secured to a screwdriver shaft.  Something really high tech like electrical tape or similar to hold it all together.  Anyway, I can hold the apparatus like it’s a pencil and it absolutely tears through pumpkins for Halloween.  Since you’re working with such thin wood I wonder if something similar wouldn’t work.  Maybe just wrapping most of the blade with tape and doing it by hand?  Oddly, last month I  went through a box of tools I pulled out of a dumpster many years ago and found myself in possession of dozens of fret saw blades. 

[Zebidee]

Was thinking similar myself. Not so much about dumpster diving, but that a somewhat wider blade would help with control and minimise the twisting. Something like a hacksaw blade, centimetre wide or so, you'd need the teeth to be close together to ensure control.

[yamatetsu]

I have some broken piece of jigsaw blade that I secured to a screwdriver shaft.  Something really high tech like electrical tape or similar to hold it all together.  Anyway, I can hold the apparatus like it’s a pencil and it absolutely tears through pumpkins for Halloween.  Since you’re working with such thin wood I wonder if something similar wouldn’t work.  Maybe just wrapping most of the blade with tape and doing it by hand?

That wouldn't work. These blades are about .3 mm thick and flexy as heck. You need something that pulls them at both ends to keep them rigid. If they are not rigid enough, you can turn the saw to a 50-70 degree angle and the blade still doesn't turn. I had to buy a saw with a different locking mechanism to even be able to use those blades.
What absolutely baffles me is that I get this problem now, after using this type of blades for about half a year without any issues.

Was thinking similar myself. Not so much about dumpster diving, but that a somewhat wider blade would help with control and minimise the twisting. Something like a hacksaw blade, centimetre wide or so, you'd need the teeth to be close together to ensure control.

Doctor: Nurse! Scalpel!
Nurse: How about a hacksaw?

1 mm is considered to be very wide, 1 cm would be like trying to use a jigsaw to do fine cuts. Doing a really tight radius would be impossible, nevermind trying to do a 90 degree angle.

[RandyT]

1 mm is considered to be very wide, 1 cm would be like trying to use a jigsaw to do fine cuts. Doing a really tight radius would be impossible, nevermind trying to do a 90 degree angle.

Have you ever considered trying a diamond wire saw?  .6mm kerf and it doesn't care which direction you go.  The only drawback might be loading, but I have found the remains of a dried up tube of silicone caulk (waste not, want not ) works very well for cleaning wood out of sander belts, etc. so it should work for this as well.

[Zebidee]

Doctor: Nurse! Scalpel!
Nurse: How about a hacksaw?

Seriously though, a hacksaw would be a better choice than scalpel if you were performing an amputation. Dr Zeb would probably want both, for different parts of the job.

1 mm is considered to be very wide, 1 cm would be like trying to use a jigsaw to do fine cuts. Doing a really tight radius would be impossible, nevermind trying to do a 90 degree angle.

The suggestion was purely for those funky straight bits you mentioned, not the fine cuts.

But I get that you might make another choice, maybe something in between, a bit less like a hacksaw and more like a fretsaw?

[yamatetsu]

1 mm is considered to be very wide, 1 cm would be like trying to use a jigsaw to do fine cuts. Doing a really tight radius would be impossible, nevermind trying to do a 90 degree angle.

Have you ever considered trying a diamond wire saw?  .6mm kerf and it doesn't care which direction you go.  The only drawback might be loading, but I have found the remains of a dried up tube of silicone caulk (waste not, want not ) works very well for cleaning wood out of sander belts, etc. so it should work for this as well.

Diamond wire is not required. I have used .6 mm wood blades without any problems before stumbling onto the .3 mm ones. .6mm is too wide.
The point is that a .3 mm cut is so small that you almost can't see it. If you have a shape that has two colors, you can cut it in half, paint the halves and glue them back together without anyone noticing that they have been cut. Using a .6 mm blade, that cut will be visible.

Doctor: Nurse! Scalpel!
Nurse: How about a hacksaw?

Seriously though, a hacksaw would be a better choice than scalpel if you were performing an amputation. Dr Zeb would probably want both, for different parts of the job.

1 mm is considered to be very wide, 1 cm would be like trying to use a jigsaw to do fine cuts. Doing a really tight radius would be impossible, nevermind trying to do a 90 degree angle.

The suggestion was purely for those funky straight bits you mentioned, not the fine cuts.

But I get that you might make another choice, maybe something in between, a bit less like a hacksaw and more like a fretsaw?

The in between choice would be a .6mm blade which works fine, but the cut is too wide. Alternating between the two blades woud be too much of a hassle, plus you would notice the transition from a .6mm cut to a cut half the width.


The problem I most likely have is that you have to put the .3mm blade under extreme tension to keep it from flexing. The locking mechanism uses this to hold the blade:



You just twirl the lever until the blade is trapped between this screw and a metal plate in the saw. If you don't do it tight enough, the blade slips out. If you do it just right, the blade is held and hopefully won't flex.
Overdo it and you can kiss your saw goodbye. It's like overtightening a screw, that thing will never hold a blade again. The saw has two levers, so if you overdo both, the saw is useless.
After finding that out, I had to buy a new one which cost me about 30 Euros. So I'm a little apprehensive when tightening that lever.

[Zebidee]

So I'm a little apprehensive when tightening that lever.

Don't fret! Maybe you can find something cheaper online.

If you had a little more space you could get yourself a scroll saw, which is essentially a powered fretsaw with a table. Gives you more control for those fiddly bits.

[RandyT]

Diamond wire is not required. I have used .6 mm wood blades without any problems before stumbling onto the .3 mm ones. .6mm is too wide.
The point is that a .3 mm cut is so small that you almost can't see it. If you have a shape that has two colors, you can cut it in half, paint the halves and glue them back together without anyone noticing that they have been cut. Using a .6 mm blade, that cut will be visible.

I was under the impression that the idea behind these types of works were that each piece would have it's own color, or a gradient thereof like a vector image might.  I also thought that the separation lines were part and parcel of the style of this type of medium.  It seems to me that a piece where multiple colors are desired would just be painted that way.

I guess my naivety is showing when it comes to this art form.  BTW, the kerf on a 50w laser is  ~.13mm.  Usually smaller with less power.  Just ribbing you a bit with that info, I get the reasons for not using one.

[yamatetsu]

So I'm a little apprehensive when tightening that lever.

Don't fret! Maybe you can find something cheaper online.

Unfortunately this locking mechanism is a patented design and there's just one guy who produces those saws.

If you had a little more space you could get yourself a scroll saw, which is essentially a powered fretsaw with a table. Gives you more control for those fiddly bits.

Regarding the scroll saw - no space, no funds, no interest in it.

I was under the impression that the idea behind these types of works were that each piece would have it's own color, or a gradient thereof like a vector image might.  I also thought that the separation lines were part and parcel of the style of this type of medium.

Using visible separation lines or not depends of what I'm are going for. It's not always my goal to make it clear that the picture consists of pieces. It's nice to have people go "Nice painting! ... Oy, that is not a painting!"
The latest piece I made in this style was shown to 6 people, two of which actually touched it to confirm that it isn't a painting. Mission accomplished.

It seems to me that a piece where multiple colors are desired would just be painted that way.

To me, that would be the cheap way out. If I don't bother cutting those pieces up, I might as well don't bother cutting any pieces at all. I only do this when a multi colored piece is too small to be cut up.

[Zebidee]

Unfortunately this locking mechanism is a patented design and there's just one guy who produces those saws.

In that case, your guy has no incentive to improve the design's durability.

I accept at face value that your guy must make pretty special saws to impress you, but there must be hundreds of fret saw manufacturers out there. Or maybe all the others junk, explaining how PBJ found a set in a dumpster.

[yamatetsu]

Unfortunately this locking mechanism is a patented design and there's just one guy who produces those saws.

In that case, your guy has no incentive to improve the design's durability.

He doesn't need to. From what I have read, these saws are used in school classes for years without any issues. To be fair, I put more strain on the mechanism than I should.

Here's a vid to shows you how the mechanism works (although he does it backwards) https://youtu.be/cQOuOUesNCI?t=179.

Once you have used that, you never go back to fiddling with wingnuts.

[Zebidee]

I now know much more about fretsaws than I did yesterday. I enjoy listening to Wuppertal talk about stuff, even though I don't understand most of it (maybe 2/10 words).

[yamatetsu]

He gives a brief history of the fretsaw (has been around since the 16th century, was used to cut flowery ornaments/intarsia for furniture), tells us that each fretsaw consists of a grip, a bow and a blade, that most fretsaws use wingnuts to fasten the blade, that fretsaws come in different bow sizes (bigger board=bigger fretsaw needed). He then shows us the "Automatik Laubsägebogen" (the one I'm using now) and finally warns us not to buy cheap fretsaws at the flea market because those tend to have cheap metal plates in the locking mechanism that will warp after a few uses and then will not hold the blade any more.

[yamatetsu]

"Norman Bates"

30,5 x 41,5cm, backer board 4mm, Norman 4mm




Nice one. I love his warm smile and the mischievous twinkle in his eye.

[yamatetsu]

"Gina"

35 x 47 cm, backer board 4mm, Gina 4mm



A tribute to my dog, Gina.



This one has a lot of fine details (which mostly can't be seen in the pic) and is too big for my saw, which resulted in tricky work and a healthy dose of frustration. Took three weeks to make and is absolutely worth it.