So I've been building an ultralight

[RandyT]

It’s current year.  Stop using retarded as an insult.  Don’t look through my comment history - I’ve evolved.

Only in America is someone using a word, as intended by it's textbook definition, considered to be insulting.

In the sense that the quote was not fully developed or held back from it's full potential by an incompatibility, it is quite proper to consider it to be "retarded". 

Therefore, you have in your calling out of the word, devolved, regardless of the current year.  Are bakers next to be scolded for retarding the rise of their dough through refrigeration? 

[pbj]

It was meant to be humorous you mongoloid.

 

[RandyT]

It was meant to be humorous you mongoloid.

 

I suspected as much.  The reason I dissected your comment was to A: give you a hard time and B: infer that it would have landed better and casted less doubt about your intentions had you left out the "I've evolved" part.  That made it look like you weren't fully committed to the bit...just in case. 

Differently abled 🤷‍♂️

Now THAT is a humorous response when referring to a mangled file. 

[danny_galaga]

So the plane was supposed to get an inspection today, but the airstrip was hit with a huge storm yesterday, so it's going to our of commission for a few days. It's a grass strip. Could do it next week but since I have a week's leave the week after its going to be done then.

Once it's inspected and gets a test flight permit, I'll need to insure it. More money..who knew owning your own airplane would be so expensive...

[Zebidee]

---fudgesicle--- me, if whatsi can evolve then maybe there is hope for the rest of us.

I am *trying* to evolve but seem to keep getting stuck commenting on posts like this.

Looking forward to seeing pics of the test flight! Wooooo!

[RandyT]

Once it's inspected and gets a test flight permit, I'll need to insure it. More money..who knew owning your own airplane would be so expensive...

Are you keeping a tally of the total so far, or is it one of those "stopped counting after X" situations?  And out of curiosity, what does it cost to insure something like that?  My gut is telling me that it's costly, but I thought the same thing about motorcycle insurance the first time I bought some and was surprised at how cheap it was.

[pbj]

Motorcycle insurance is cheap because you usually don't survive.   

[danny_galaga]

Motorcycle insurance is cheap because you usually don't survive.   

😄

[danny_galaga]

Once it's inspected and gets a test flight permit, I'll need to insure it. More money..who knew owning your own airplane would be so expensive...

Are you keeping a tally of the total so far, or is it one of those "stopped counting after X" situations?  And out of curiosity, what does it cost to insure something like that?  My gut is telling me that it's costly, but I thought the same thing about motorcycle insurance the first time I bought some and was surprised at how cheap it was.

Yeah, lost count ages ago. I'll quote in USD. And I'll add 5% because our dollar was a bit stronger some years back

The kit was roughly 30,000 USD . Propeller roughly $1100. These two things both came from Sert Efrikah so even more exchange rate obfuscation there. Engine was about $4000 ON CONDITION. Basically that's airplane talk for second hand 😄I bought it off my mechanic, out of one of his hire planes. You can only go to 2000 hours if used commercially. Mine is actually at about 1850 hours so could go longer but he had an opportunity to replace it earlier. These engines have been known to go up to 4000 hours. What's cool about this particular engine is I've already got maybe 20 hours on it from when I was hiring his plane 😊. It was the best call in retrospect. Most private pilots don't even rack up 100 hours a year. And I'm not even sure I'm going to keep the plane long. For reference I think the Rotax 912 ULS is now over $20,000 new.

I was having such a hard time with the QA of this kit I managed to sweet talk them into sending me approximately $3000 worth of free avionics. Some of it was nearly worthless to me. For instance a transponder that didn't match Australian regulations anymore and that I wasn't going to use anyway. And an ASI (air speed indicator) that was in mph instead of knots. I sold the transponder for about $300 (made in Texas, worth about $1800) to someone who happened to still have that model in his plane. In general the rules are you can replace like for like during repairs as long as it's exactly the same model. Also sold the crappy compass for about $100. Main thing I ended up with was the radio, which was a medium level one. Roughly $1500. It works well so happy with that.
I can't remember how much I paid for the rest of the instruments. Maybe $1500 plus more recently $650 for a correct ASI.

LOTS of odds and ends, like an aerial for instance. and I knew right at the beginning I should have kept tabs on it all. Who knows, maybe $2000 all up including the vinyl graphics which obviously isn't necessary for flight.

Insurance is very roughly $2000 a year for a tricycle undercarriage, and maybe $2500 for a tail dragger like mine. Even though it's otherwise exactly the same plane, tail draggers tend to have more incidents on the runway with groundloops. Normally no biggie (see video, same plane I first tried tailwheel flying in coincidentally) but its easy to see there's a chance of some sort of damage.

https://youtu.be/N6jSruMW84Q?si=THupIW1YHsjng3x0

[nitrogen_widget]

so what happens when it hits 4k hours?
what has to be done to it?
strip to block and overhaul, scrap, or sell it to someone making a dune buggy or air boat?

[danny_galaga]

You just keep.measuring cylinder pressures. If they start to drop off, you could rebuild. But to do a full rebuild is over 20k, which is why flying schools just sell them 'on condition ' at 2000 and buy a new engine. I have thought with the right kind of adaptor, it would make a bitchin replacement for air-cooled VW engines. You'll need a radiator, but they cool so well you could just have the radiator in the engine bay

[RandyT]

Taking to the air is a costly undertaking.  I think I'll stick to flight sims.

20k is crazy for engine, but I guess if you were a sledding enthusiast, you could recycle an EOL engine to one of those machines.  I'd imagine it would be a drop in replacement for a standard 912 with an extra 20 HP for those who like to go fast.  I know a guy who put a similar sled engine on a RZR 800 4x4 and that thing was just stupid.

[bobbyb13]

I like this concept of repurposing a spent engine.
Gives me hope for a power plant for the 550 Spyder project I hope to get to before I'm dust!

You just keep.measuring cylinder pressures. If they start to drop off, you could rebuild. But to do a full rebuild is over 20k, which is why flying schools just sell them 'on condition ' at 2000 and buy a new engine. I have thought with the right kind of adaptor, it would make a bitchin replacement for air-cooled VW engines. You'll need a radiator, but they cool so well you could just have the radiator in the engine bay

[danny_galaga]

Taking to the air is a costly undertaking.  I think I'll stick to flight sims.

20k is crazy for engine, but I guess if you were a sledding enthusiast, you could recycle an EOL engine to one of those machines.  I'd imagine it would be a drop in replacement for a standard 912 with an extra 20 HP for those who like to go fast.  I know a guy who put a similar sled engine on a RZR 800 4x4 and that thing was just stupid.

Rotax 912 is completely different to things like snowmobile engines. It's much more akin to the air-cooled VW,  so MIGHT be useful in a VW project like Bobby's 550 Spyder. It's an honest 100hp. You can get that from VW engines but it'll cost a lot more and be less reliable. The big snag is the reduction gearbox for the propeller. This is the end which you would probably attach the clutch to. But even right now I  can't think if it'll be spinning the right way or not without that gearbox. My thought is that if it's spinning the wrong way without the gearbox, which only has two gears in it, you could get 1:1 gears made to replace them. Not ideal, but still probably more reliable and powerful than most air-cooled VW engines

[RandyT]

Yeah, I don't doubt that there are aircraft specific mods made to them.  But when it comes to engine retrofits, as long as it has an output shaft of some nature, it could be made to work on just about anything, one way or another.  The air-cooling presents the biggest challenge, which probably makes them more suitable to winter motorsports, where the cold air and a simple cooling fan at idle would probably be enough to keep it from self-immolating. 

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, I don't doubt that there are aircraft specific mods made to them.  But when it comes to engine retrofits, as long as it has an output shaft of some nature, it could be made to work on just about anything, one way or another.  The air-cooling presents the biggest challenge, which probably makes them more suitable to winter motorsports, where the cold air and a simple cooling fan at idle would probably be enough to keep it from self-immolating.

I mean the general format is not conducive..things like snowmobiles and jet skis tend to have inline engines because they are quite narrow..flat fours are quite wide and I'm.not sure you would fit this inside the bodywork. If going for crazy modified snowmobiles I would think a better fit would be an online four motorcycle engine like for instance the Suzuki GS 1000. Cheaper and more powerful than the Rotax 912 and potentially much easier to fit. It's a win/win/win 🙂

[RandyT]

I mean the general format is not conducive..things like snowmobiles and jet skis tend to have inline engines because they are quite narrow..flat fours are quite wide and I'm.not sure you would fit this inside the bodywork. If going for crazy modified snowmobiles I would think a better fit would be an online four motorcycle engine like for instance the Suzuki GS 1000. Cheaper and more powerful than the Rotax 912 and potentially much easier to fit. It's a win/win/win 🙂

My thoughts were along the lines of an ultra-modified machine.  After seeing it, it's clear that a drop in replacement would probably not be a thing.  Hell, I have seen some YT videos of people running farm vehicles and full-sized cars with the Predator twin cylinder from Harbor Freight.  I put one of these in my Terramite as well.  There were several challenges to overcome, like mounting layout, the output shaft location and direction, exhaust, etc. but the end result was a more powerful and cheaper engine that has outperformed the original.  Where there is a will, there is a way.

My only point was that a high-reliability, performant engine past it's prime for air use could still have a long and useful life for other applications where these qualities are sought and where failure won't equate to plummeting a few thousand feet to the ground .    For what these cost, it would make sense to re-purpose them in order to reclaim some value.  That is, of course, if complete rebuilds costing considerably less than new weren't an option.

[danny_galaga]

Agreed..like I say, I think there's great potential for air-cooled VW cars. Once the engineering is sorted out, it could well be a drop in replacement. Adapting it looks simple, but would need a well thought out system. The 912 is more like a car engine than an aircraft engine, in that it operates in similar rev range. But it is still built from the ground up for aircraft. My thought is to drive the clutch where the prop is driven, and have a pair of 1:1 ratio gears to replace the existing approximately 1:2 ratio gears . The carbies can probably stay. Even though in general aircraft have different carbie requirements, the 912 uses Bing carbies, same as BMW motorbikes used to use.
Regarding cooling, the 912 has air cooled cylinders, oil cooling and liquid cooled heads. The cooling tends to work so well that in many European countries, they are flying with tape covering some of the radiator. In say a Beetle I reckon you could just put a radiator in the engine bay, without even a direct air flow and it would still be fine.

[RandyT]

Cooling:  Ok, that opens a lot more possibilities.  When I hear "Air-cooled" I think of the older engines which had no radiators, oil-coolers, etc. whatsoever.   That, of course, has changed over time, with most bikes, 4-wheelers and SxSs having at minimum oil coolers, with the latter even having actual radiators like a car.  One of my 250cc scooters actually has two radiators in-line just to keep the heat down.  I remember when I first got the machine, it had an overheating problem that I couldn't identify because I didn't know about the second radiator buried way down under the seat.  Turns out that one had a dead electric fan out of the gate.  Replaced it and no more overheating condition. 

Carbs:  They sound like nice carbs.  The only thing which might be fun is getting them adjusted properly for thicker air at ground level.  Which leads me to another question:  Do those engines tend to run lean on the ground, or is the air-fuel mix something which is controlled by some device or by the operator as necessary?  I never really considered this before, but I would think something would need to happen to account for the difference.

[danny_galaga]

The Bings, either by design or happy accident, lean out at altitude. 'Real' aircraft engines have a manual mixture control. Generally, below 5000 feet you just leave it on full rich. Above that you start leaning it, from memory in reference to an exhaust gas temperature gauge.
The other thing with aircraft is carby icing. At just the right altitude and humidity, ice will start to build up in the carby throat. You can imagine that wouldn't be good. On 'real' aircraft, if the engine starts to run rough and you suspect carby icing, you can pull a carby heat lever. That just bypasses the air filter and pulls air past the exhaust manifold. De ices pretty quickly, but you lose about 5% power. On my aircraft, and many others with a Rotax, there is a little water jacket around the throats. This means it's getting hot water from the cooling system and the throat is always warmer than otherwise. Because it's not feeding hot air into the engine, thus losing power, it's on permanently. The only drawback I see is that if your engine starts to run rough, you don't have that simple check of turning on the carby heat. Is it icing? Or something else? All you can do is drop altitude and see if it clears up.

Anyway, NONE of that matters for our hypothetical terrestrial uses, just thought you might find it interesting ☺️

[danny_galaga]

Plane was inspected yesterday. No big surprises, relatively speaking. Will tidy up a couple of small, but potentially problematic that the mechanic picked up on. One of them being a bolt from the seat back pressing against the fuel thank, potentially it would wear a hole through it eventually 😲

[RandyT]

Anyway, NONE of that matters for our hypothetical terrestrial uses, just thought you might find it interesting ☺️

Thanks for the insights on how this works.  I absolutely find this stuff interesting.  I can imagine that quite a few bad endings have come about from inexperienced pilots who lose their cool when something stops working properly and they fail to identify the causes quickly to enough to recover.  As much as it isn't for everyone, that's probably one major advantage to building things yourself and fully understanding all of the machine's intricacies.

She's looking really nice!  Good catch by the inspector.  Probably not the first time they have seen that kind of thing

[danny_galaga]

Latest hurdle I can't blame on the kit manufacturer. The authorities have never heard of the brand of propeller I'm using and are giving us a hard time. I mean, they COULD google it if they liked

http://www.p-propeller.co.za/

It's a good indication of how innovation has fallen behind in Australia...

[Zebidee]

Oh, Australia has plenty of innovation. What it lacks is a culture of support for innovation, entrepreneurialism and capability.

Australia also lacks is a thriving manufacturing sector to support that innovation - used to have it, but we've been letting it rot on the vine for the last 40-50 years. For example, remember when Australia had three local car manufacturers? Three! Now none (since 2017). An automotive industry supports all kinds of spinoff industries and SMEs that are then in a good position to adapt to new innovative needs - unfortunately that base just isn't there any more.

20 - 30 years ago, Australia led the work with solar panel tech. But because nobody cared to invest locally, now we buy them from China. Australia used to lead the world in photonics (e.g. optical fibre, broadband etc), now that expertise is overseas. Did you know that wifi, as we know it today, was originally developed in Australia? I personally remember back in the mid-1990's, marvelling at the guys from CSIRO and Uni of Western Sydney running LANs *without cables*! I could go on.

People have started re-thinking about Australia's manufacturing sector woes, especially since Scomo's "Bull in a China shop" diplomatic crisis in about 2020 and the broader dawning realisation that the world may be heading towards a new era of conflicts worldwide, and that Australia should be thinking more about self-sufficiency and capabilities rather than outsourcing all our manufacturing and expertise to countries with cheaper labour and laxer environmental laws.

OK, rant over

[danny_galaga]

I meant there is a distinct lack of encouragement of innovation. All people in all countries innovate. Some encourage it more than others. Anyway, I'm going to get the propeller manufacturer to send the bureaucrats a dissertation, plus list things like their star sign and favourite beer. Hopefully that gets me over the line...

[nitrogen_widget]

Latest hurdle I can't blame on the kit manufacturer. The authorities have never heard of the brand of propeller I'm using and are giving us a hard time. I mean, they COULD google it if they liked

http://www.p-propeller.co.za/

It's a good indication of how innovation has fallen behind in Australia...

is yours made of wood?

[Zebidee]

I meant there is a distinct lack of encouragement of innovation.

That's right and I agree. Maybe better than most!

All people in all countries innovate. Some encourage it more than others. Anyway, I'm going to get the propeller manufacturer to send the bureaucrats a dissertation, plus list things like their star sign and favourite beer. Hopefully that gets me over the line...

lol, I fully understand and appreciate. I've always been on the innovators side.

I formerly worked as one of the bureaurocrats who might have been reading, analysing and prepping briefing/responses to your correspondence ("ministerials", if addressed to the minister). For a couple of decades at all kinds of levels, mostly towards science education and innovation policy community/industry development work. Ultimately high level stuff, though not for aviation, but in other areas like general science, IT and digital economy. Apart from the technicals, is all the same though.

Responding to "ministerials" was generally considered a chore, to be farmed out. Just like washing dishes, everyone got their share. It was very rare that such correspondence, on its own, resulted in any significant action. A well targeted ministerial might be enough to get a propeller cleared past regulations, with some other work, but you need more than this to get anything significant done.

So summary is, the beers (or some coffees) can help   Getting bureaucrats onside isn't the endgame, but sure can help grease the wheels. When they see your correspondence they'll know what to do with it, and any appropriate recommendations to make to decision makers. I've had many great free lunches in service of a better understanding of emerging technologies and social and industry development needs   

All joking aside, forwarding them that link might help, but I'm guessing you've done that already  http://www.p-propeller.co.za/

[danny_galaga]

Oh yes, I re-watch Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister from time to time. Apparently it's a pretty good insight into how bureaucracy works 😄

It is curious though that the organisation responsible for my aircraft, who aren't a government organisation, seem to be filled with in-curious types. If I wss in that position and saw a propeller brand I'd never heard of, out of my own interest in the subject I'd google it. But then again,I've lost interest in my own project so I can't really be upset if others aren't ecstatic about it 😄

[danny_galaga]

Latest hurdle I can't blame on the kit manufacturer. The authorities have never heard of the brand of propeller I'm using and are giving us a hard time. I mean, they COULD google it if they liked

http://www.p-propeller.co.za/

It's a good indication of how innovation has fallen behind in Australia...

is yours made of wood?

Yes. I bought it because it looks so pretty in a clear finish ☺️. Funnily enough, if I bought a propeller from one of the biggest manufacturers - Sensenich, for this size it would also be made of wood, but it's painted so you wouldn't know. Or should I say you WOODEN know 😃

[Zebidee]

Oh yes, I re-watch Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister from time to time. Apparently it's a pretty good insight into how bureaucracy works 😄

Essential viewing for all graduate trainees

Most of us would cheer on Bernard. His look of bewilderment is quite familiar lol.

It is curious though that the organisation responsible for my aircraft, who aren't a government organisation, seem to be filled with in-curious types. If I wss in that position and saw a propeller brand I'd never heard of, out of my own interest in the subject I'd google it. But then again,I've lost interest in my own project so I can't really be upset if others aren't ecstatic about it 😄

Government's don't have a monopoly on dull folk, administrators are rarely adventurers, and a job is a job. Bet few of the admin staff even own a plane. This might be a good thing - you probably don't want people with strong imaginations in relatively boring jobs.

[danny_galaga]

Yes, poor Bernard! 

Mind you, one of the things I appreciate about the series, that maybe some people don't see is that it reveals how much the Westminster system operates in 'grey' areas, not black and white. And that in fact, is a good thing because it has quite a remarkable flexibility. The absurdity is the comedy, but it is also about as good as it gets in a fair democracy.
Oh, and by god, watching it again and seeing how Jim Hacker becomes Prime Minister, it really predicts Scott Morrison doesn't it? How they both 'Steven Bradbury-d' into power 

[danny_galaga]

I now have a test flight certificate 🙂

[bobbyb13]

Congrats!
So the saga may continue...
Given that holiday mayhem is about to reach a crescendo in many places, what are prospects for getting her off the ground?

[nitrogen_widget]

I now have a test flight certificate 🙂

you need to live stream that.

[danny_galaga]

Congrats!
So the saga may continue...
Given that holiday mayhem is about to reach a crescendo in many places, what are prospects for getting her off the ground?

Approximately zero to none.

[danny_galaga]

I have quotes from several insurers now. At today's rates, it's approximately 2700 USD

[Zebidee]

For a year? What does that cover (comprehensive, third party, etc)? If the hanger burns down do you get enough for a new plane? What if it floods out? There is often a distinction between storm and flood coverage. Premiums for natural disasters seem to have gone through the roof.

What do you require legally?

[danny_galaga]

So my plane is registered with RA AUS. They have their own system..you pay yearly rego, like a car. Civil aviation you only pay (once) to get the call sign and then the rest is up to you. Same with licence. In civil aviation, once you have the licence, you have it forever. With Ra Aus, it's a yearly renewal.

Like a car, there is third party liability. I think it's 20 million . BUT, only 250k for passenger injury/death. As you can imagine that's not much at all. So the generally recommended thing is to get 5 million to cover the passenger, and then also cover the cost of the plane. One guy I talked to said his plane is maybe 250k, he has it 40% insured, enough to get him.a cheaper plane if his gets written off. I've insured mine for 70k AUD, which is like 53 cents American 😄

Plane cover is for any circumstance as far as I can tell.i understand that insurance are effing a holes when it comes to your house and floods versus flooding. That was really driven home after the floods here in Brisbane. But for an airplane, much like a car it can be damaged in so many different ways. It's just covered.

[Zebidee]

Well, this is topical. Hopefully he had his insurance paid-up. Won't make much difference to him of course (pilot dead), but at least the surviving passenger can make a claim on it:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-29/plane-crash-mcintyres-airfield-palmers-island-yamba-nsw/104769362

[danny_galaga]

Yes, heard about it. I believe he was flying a Bearhawk, similar style of aircraft as mine, but bigger. Was probably on the civil register so don't know about insurance in case.