So I've been building an ultralight

[danny_galaga]

This has taken away virtually all my gaming time, including C64 projects I had going.

But if I ever finish this thing, it will make for some fun aerial 'road trips' 

[wp34]

That's really cool Danny.  I've always been fascinated with Ultralites as well.  Keep us posted on your progress.

[danny_galaga]

Yeah like I say I've been fascinated with ultralights since I was about 15. Longer really, because I loved the movie 'Those magnificent men in their flying machines' and at least one of those aircraft (Demoiselle) would now be considered an ultralight.

The Bushcat is not like the ultralights I used to dream of but it will be a hell of a lot more practical

[pbj]

I used to see a guy flying around in a go kart strapped to a parachute.  Looked fun.

Do they make an ultra lite that can fly with a 400lb passenger?

[danny_galaga]

Yes and no. If this 400lb person learns to fly they can fly in a Bushcat with a 75lb passenger

[Howard_Casto]

What if we only put one butt cheek in the seat?   

[whammoed]

Very exciting and ambitious.  I see one issue though.  That garage is too clean.

[DaOld Man]

Good side project there Danny_galaga. Looks like it will be a lot of fun.

[danny_galaga]

Good side project there Danny_galaga. Looks like it will be a lot of fun.

It will be fun when it's finished 

I really haven't enjoyed building it as much as I thought I would. Right now being the exception, because I am working on the control panel, err instrument panel 

[Howard_Casto]

You are using airplane grade screws and stuff aren't you?  We'd prefer it if you don't die. 

[danny_galaga]

I'm using what's supplied in the kit. The most critical bits are aircraft grade and the rest is whatever. For instance the brakes are from Matco who have been making aircraft parts for maybe 100 years. But the choke lever is a bicycle gear shifter.

Anyway, I'll put a four leaf clover in it somewhere. What could go wrong 

[pbj]

Have you flown it yet?

 I think about this project from time to time, and what I’d do in case of a malfunction.  I suppose panic just enough to make it look like I half heartedly cared whether or not it crashed. 

I’m hopeful this isn’t a suicidal mission in slow motion....

 

[nitrogen_widget]

He's amongst the big boys now

https://dannygalaga.blogspot.com/2020/08/21-big-move.html?m=0

Damn.
You built an airplane faster than I tiled my shower.

[bobbyb13]

He's amongst the big boys now

https://dannygalaga.blogspot.com/2020/08/21-big-move.html?m=0

Damn.
You built an airplane faster than I tiled my shower.

The girls just asked me what I'm laughing so hard about.

This project is awesome.
There is a small airstrip 3 miles down the road from me and I see a lot of small airtraffic as a result.

Really looks fun!

[danny_galaga]

Have you flown it yet?

 I think about this project from time to time, and what I’d do in case of a malfunction.  I suppose panic just enough to make it look like I half heartedly cared whether or not it crashed. 

I’m hopeful this isn’t a suicidal mission in slow motion....

 

 

The main things that would give me the willies is a structural malfunction. Engine failure is not so bad. I read a good article once about what to do in unusual situations (engine failure is pretty straight forward) like what if the ailerons got stuck while you were rolling. Sharper people than me have gotten out of situations where I'd just think 'oh, well. This is how it ends'...

[Vocalitus]

Looks like a nice project.

Just don't end up like James Horner.

[danny_galaga]

Looks like a nice project.

Just don't end up like James Horner.

Had to look that up. He was flying a pretty powerful aircraft. Power is not a thing I'm going to have to wrestle with in my ultralight 

[Grasshopper]

Danny, I realise this might sound silly, but can you fly?

[Stingray]

You rule, Dan.

[danny_galaga]

Danny, I realise this might sound silly, but can you fly?

I believe I can fly 

[danny_galaga]

Still working on it 

[Vocalitus]

Still working on it 

Still working on what? - lets see some progress pictures.

I hear horse glue is better than goat glue so use that on the wings.

[danny_galaga]

Well I put the hinges on the sub door frames. So there's that.. Also starting to think about buying the engine now. Just as well because I've been saving rubber bands but I think it would be a PITA to wind up

[bobbyb13]

What exactly do you put in one of these for an engine anyway?

I would imagine you won't get enough altitude to have major issues with oxygen percentages...
Or will you?

Now I'm thinking about it, what type/octane fuel (assuming no need for a turbocharger-)

I love this project

[Vocalitus]

Well I put the hinges on the sub door frames. So there's that.. Also starting to think about buying the engine now. Just as well because I've been saving rubber bands but I think it would be a PITA to wind up

Electric engines perhaps?

https://aerospace.honeywell.com/us/en/learn/products/electric-power

[danny_galaga]

There are now some electric options, And a company named Pipistrel actually sell electric aircraft, but it's all way beyond my price range. And the range is not enough since we plan on doing a bit of touring in this thing if I ever finish it.

Most popular engine for ultralights now (as opposed to microlights, which are smaller and are what ultralights were in the 80's) is the Rotax 912. It's about 1.2 litres. 100 HP. Twin carb or fuel injected. You can also get a turbo charged version. But why make it more complicated. Bobby, most ultralights are capable of going over ten thousand feet. But the licence I converted to actually restricts ME to ten thousand 😄 highest I've ever flown was 8000, which was easy. But low and slow is more fun 😎

[bobbyb13]

Gets chilly at 10k ft I bet!

Thanks for sharing this project here.

Stoked to learn some about this stuff through your efforts!

[danny_galaga]

Fitting windscreen and left door. Damn hard to see out that screen though 

[danny_galaga]

What exactly do you put in one of these for an engine anyway?

I would imagine you won't get enough altitude to have major issues with oxygen percentages...
Or will you?

Now I'm thinking about it, what type/octane fuel (assuming no need for a turbocharger-)

I love this project

Picked up last weekend. It's from the plane I hire to keep my skills up. Which is cool because it means I have 15-20 hours on this engine already 🙂

[bobbyb13]

Very cool.
Looks remarkably like an old Beetle engine!

And if this came out of the plane you were flying previously... what happened to THAT plane then...?!

[danny_galaga]

Funny story 😄

There were two planes at the place I hire from. This engine's hours were nearly up. The engine in the other plane had a lot longer to go. But THAT plane was damaged in a rough landing. Airframe was written off but engine was fine. Hire aircraft engines can't go over 2000 hours. But private can. These Rotax engines are good for over 4000 hours. So I get the engine that was nearly ready to be replaced, and the hire plane I was flying continues on with the lower hours engine

The funny story continues though. They 'borrowed' back my carbies because the butterfly valve shaft in the other engine got bent in the rough landing. So today I hired the plane and I'm STILL flying it with bits of the engine inow own 😄

[nitrogen_widget]

so what is the difference between and plane engine and say an engine used for a ground vehicle?
i've got a 20HP engine in a lawn tractor.
I don't think you can put it in an airplane.

intake and exhaust manifolds along with carbs are different i assume?

[danny_galaga]

You could definitely put that engine in a small ultralight. How reliable it would be is a different matter. Rotax got into the aircraft game because in the 80's when ultralights we're still a new thing people were using whatever they could get their hands on. From go kart motors to largechsinsaw engines. Rotax made two strokes for snow mobiles etc which turned out to be a good match.

People often say 'that motors not very powerful, my car engine would be much better'. But there are several really important differences that make car engines not as useful as it would first seem. First of all, propellers are most efficient at around 2500 rpm. So a lot of plane engines are designed to develop power around that speed. Rotax design their engines more like a car engine, and then add a reduction gearbox, roughly 2:1. Propellers might be more efficient around 2500 rpm, but it turns out petrol engines are most efficient around 5000rpm.

The other major thing a car engine spends most of its time at a fairly low power setting. To drive on the highway might take 20 per cent of its power for instance. But an airplane might be cruising at maybe 75-85 per cent power, ALL DAY. Not just that, on smaller aircraft especially, on take off you are using 100 per cent power until you level out. That could be five minutes. Imagine a drag race that was five minutes long!

To illustrate how seemingly under rated an aircraft motor seems, I learnt to fly in a Piper Warrior. I think from memory it had a Lycoming 0320 in it. That's pretty close in capacity to a Chevy 327. But the Lycoming only developed 150hp, AND only 4 cylinders! Like I say though, it could run all day near the top of its range.

[RandyT]

You could definitely put that engine in a small ultralight. How reliable it would be is a different matter. Rotax got into the aircraft game because in the 80's when ultralights we're still a new thing people were using whatever they could get their hands on. From go kart motors to largechsinsaw engines. Rotax made two strokes for snow mobiles etc which turned out to be a good match.

Not sure if it's true, but I also heard that some Rotax engines were shown to be so reliable that they were actually approved by the FAA for ultralight use.  I had a couple of rough looking sleds I planned to fix up which had good running Rotax engines.  When I decided that I didn't like cold, I seriously considered pulling and selling just the motors because, to the right person, they were worth more than the sleds. 

So, has anyone heard of someone crazy enough to use one of the HF Predator 20hp 2-cyl engines in an ultralight?  Being a Honda clone, they are surprisingly decent.  But you wouldn't catch me leaving the ground with one.  I think geared-down 2-strokes would be better.  Not much to talk about on the low-end, but when they get up into their power band, they can be insane relative to size and weight.  I had a 2-stroke, 3-cyl Kawasaki bike in my younger days, that I wish I kept.  Then again, if I did, I might not still be here to talk about it

[nitrogen_widget]

You could definitely put that engine in a small ultralight. How reliable it would be is a different matter. Rotax got into the aircraft game because in the 80's when ultralights we're still a new thing people were using whatever they could get their hands on. From go kart motors to largechsinsaw engines. Rotax made two strokes for snow mobiles etc which turned out to be a good match.

People often say 'that motors not very powerful, my car engine would be much better'. But there are several really important differences that make car engines not as useful as it would first seem. First of all, propellers are most efficient at around 2500 rpm. So a lot of plane engines are designed to develop power around that speed. Rotax design their engines more like a car engine, and then add a reduction gearbox, roughly 2:1. Propellers might be more efficient around 2500 rpm, but it turns out petrol engines are most efficient around 5000rpm.

The other major thing a car engine spends most of its time at a fairly low power setting. To drive on the highway might take 20 per cent of its power for instance. But an airplane might be cruising at maybe 75-85 per cent power, ALL DAY. Not just that, on smaller aircraft especially, on take off you are using 100 per cent power until you level out. That could be five minutes. Imagine a drag race that was five minutes long!

To illustrate how seemingly under rated an aircraft motor seems, I learnt to fly in a Piper Warrior. I think from memory it had a Lycoming 0320 in it. That's pretty close in capacity to a Chevy 327. But the Lycoming only developed 150hp, AND only 4 cylinders! Like I say though, it could run all day near the top of its range.

running all day is probably top of the list of things you want your personal aircraft to do.

[danny_galaga]

You could definitely put that engine in a small ultralight. How reliable it would be is a different matter. Rotax got into the aircraft game because in the 80's when ultralights we're still a new thing people were using whatever they could get their hands on. From go kart motors to largechsinsaw engines. Rotax made two strokes for snow mobiles etc which turned out to be a good match.

Not sure if it's true, but I also heard that some Rotax engines were shown to be so reliable that they were actually approved by the FAA for ultralight use.  I had a couple of rough looking sleds I planned to fix up which had good running Rotax engines.  When I decided that I didn't like cold, I seriously considered pulling and selling just the motors because, to the right person, they were worth more than the sleds. 

So, has anyone heard of someone crazy enough to use one of the HF Predator 20hp 2-cyl engines in an ultralight?  Being a Honda clone, they are surprisingly decent.  But you wouldn't catch me leaving the ground with one.  I think geared-down 2-strokes would be better.  Not much to talk about on the low-end, but when they get up into their power band, they can be insane relative to size and weight.  I had a 2-stroke, 3-cyl Kawasaki bike in my younger days, that I wish I kept.  Then again, if I did, I might not still be here to talk about it

Because it's in a different class of rules, I'm pretty sure the FAA have nothing to say about choice of engine. In fact, Rotax stopped making their 2 stroke airplane motors recently, which always had the disclaimer that they didn't meet regulations and it was up to you what you did with it.

I think the rules are simpler for ultralights because you can't cause as much havoc in an accident and also to encourage new ideas.

Just had a look at that Predator engine. That would work well in a microlight for sure. I think the class in the USA is called Part 103. You might use a belt drive to reduce the propeller speed 🙂

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/ultralights/getting-started-in-ultralight-flying/about-faa-part-103-for-ultralights

[RandyT]

I think the rules are simpler for ultralights because you can't cause as much havoc in an accident and also to encourage new ideas.

Just had a look at that Predator engine. That would work well in a microlight for sure. I think the class in the USA is called Part 103. You might use a belt drive to reduce the propeller speed 🙂

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/ultralights/getting-started-in-ultralight-flying/about-faa-part-103-for-ultralights

I guess so!  There's more rules for flying a $50 drone than an ultralight 

[danny_galaga]

I think the rules are simpler for ultralights because you can't cause as much havoc in an accident and also to encourage new ideas.

Just had a look at that Predator engine. That would work well in a microlight for sure. I think the class in the USA is called Part 103. You might use a belt drive to reduce the propeller speed 🙂

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aviation-interests/ultralights/getting-started-in-ultralight-flying/about-faa-part-103-for-ultralights

I guess so!  There's more rules for flying a $50 drone than an ultralight 

Yep, for part 103 microlights you don't even need a licence 😲

There's no such category in Australia, so to fly that same microlight here needs and ultralight licence, which is similar to GA (general aviation) but with some restrictions- only one passenger, much lower weight, no aerobatics or night flying etc.

[danny_galaga]

The 'control panel' is nearly done 🙂

[pbj]

If you crash and die can I have your didgeridoo?

[danny_galaga]

Forgot the close up of the switch holes. Ignore the shaggy vinyl, that will clean up and be covered anyway.

[Howard_Casto]

So I'm excited for you, I really am, but at some point are we going to get some go-pro footage of you actually flying the thing?  Also please don't die. 

[pbj]

3 ---smurfing--- years and it ain’t left the ground yet.

 

[danny_galaga]

3 ---smurfing--- years and it ain’t left the ground yet.

 

More like 4 years. It's been a freakin albatross around my neck...

So no one likes my 'chem trails ' switch? Thought I'd provide some 'proof' for the conspiracy theorists 😃

[danny_galaga]

CP

[Mike A]

4 years seems like a long time to build your own coffin.

[nipsmg]

CP

You have balls of steel -- I'm in the midst of getting my PPL right now-- and I love the ultralights, but I can't imagine leaving the ground in something I built myself-- I don't have nearly enough faith in my fabrication skills.

I'll fly my flight club's 172 and Archer around and burn my money that way

[danny_galaga]

Mike A . Two things have slowed me down. One was that there were a lot of things wrong with the kit, missing parts etc. So you'd be settling into a good 12 hour building session and within 30 minutes you'd find two left hand wing brackets or whatever. Now that epic 12 hour session is 30 minutes plus a ten day wait while they send you the part.
Second problem is that I started building it in our garage. But once it came time to attach the wings it was time to move it to a hanger. So now instead of just wandering out to the garage, it's a 80 minute drive to the hangar. Ennui sets in.

Nipsmg. I did my ppl in a Piper Warrior. I believe that's the model before the Archer. Good planes the Piper's, but virtually impossible to spin. That should be a good thing, but it means I've never done any spin training.

The bulk of the aircraft is just bolting stuff together. Not much fabrication involved. 

[pbj]

Nothing inspires confidence like an airplane kit that comes with the wrong parts.

 

[RandyT]

4 years seems like a long time to build your own coffin.

It would take me 4 years just to convince myself that my mechanical skills were sufficient to even start building an Utra-light.  Probably another 4 to get up the nerve to test-fly it afterward.

[danny_galaga]

Nothing inspires confidence like an airplane kit that comes with the wrong parts.

 

And yet I have so many nuts and bolts left over 😃

Randy, if you can turn a spanner, you can build an ultralight. If all metal, you need to be able to pop rivets 🙂

Just looking at my CP,  it's a veritable United nations. Instruments from Spain, Slovakia, USA, south Africa Germany and a dodgy USB charger from China 😄

[nitrogen_widget]

4 years seems like a long time to build your own coffin.

It would take me 4 years just to convince myself that my mechanical skills were sufficient to even start building an Utra-light.  Probably another 4 to get up the nerve to test-fly it afterward.

I have the skills but i also always seem to have spare parts after. 

[danny_galaga]

Backside. Still have to tidy and secure the wiring. Also, haven't done the radio yet.

[pbj]

Does it all run on that weird airplane voltage?

[RandyT]

Also, haven't done the radio yet.

Or the RGB lighting.

[danny_galaga]

Does it all run on that weird airplane voltage?

You mean 12v? Yes.

The weirdness here is the wire. It's MIL spec aircraft wire. Has a higher temperature rating and won't produce smoke if burning. Is also lighter than automotive wire. But it only comes in white and is stiff as hell. That's why you see it in those lovely curls.

[danny_galaga]

Also, haven't done the radio yet.

Or the RGB lighting.

 

[nitrogen_widget]

CP

so an actual airplane control panel is smaller than this?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,167434.0/topicseen.html

[Howard_Casto]

I've seen cows smaller than that.

[danny_galaga]

CP

so an actual airplane control panel is smaller than this?
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,167434.0/topicseen.html

Just a smidge

[bobbyb13]

She has quite the sexy backside.

Backside. Still have to tidy and secure the wiring. Also, haven't done the radio yet.

[danny_galaga]

I'm hoping to put the engine in on Wednesday. Then it will look more like a real one 😊

[nitrogen_widget]

I'm hoping to put the engine in on Wednesday. Then it will look more like a real one 😊

have you fired the engine up yet?

[danny_galaga]

It's in, but still a ways to go

[danny_galaga]

So what do you do when the radiator hoses that come with the kit are the wrong size? Turn to that venerable classic- the Datsun 120Y 

[Zebidee]

Funny that you mention the venerable Datsun 120Y, and previously bits both missing and left over.

I used to drive around Canberra in a Datsun 120Y, and had developed a few mechanic skills by that time. I've changed the very radiator hoses that you've used. I've also pulled apart, cleaned, and rebuilt the carburetor (the bit that feeds fuel from a cup) because it was chugging a bit at times.

As an aside, most modern engines got rid of carburetors and use DFI, direct fuel injection, more reliable... especially for airplanes lol. In WWII the famous Spitfire Merlin engine was limited by carburetors that failed when in inverse G maneuvers ... the ME109 had DFI and thus an advantage in some situations. So +1 for fuel injection.

Anyways, back to now, if you've never pulled apart and rebuilt a carburetor before, I recommend you keep it that way. wasn't fun.

There were like 110 tiny parts for that 120Y carby. No service or workshop manual tracked them all. It was in the days before digital cameras and smartphones, so no before or progress pics. Over about two days I got it apart. I cleaned it. I reassembled it, reinstalled it, all worked well and better than before.

But there were still like 4 parts left over! 

EDIT: Been following your project, very impressive, make sure you post before taking off

 

[danny_galaga]

Hehe. Carbies are still very common on aircraft. Mine has twin carbies, but there is a fuel injected version. My sister's first car was a 120y. Dad and I rebuilt the engine as it was blowing a lot of smoke . We actually tied the engine to a pole and lifted it out by hand 😄

[pbj]

Still hasn’t left the ground.

 

[danny_galaga]

Still hasn’t left the ground.

 

Much safer that way

[Zebidee]

Yeah, the 120Y engines are tiny and the bay is very roomy. Good one to learn on!

If you have a big enough hill, and a ramp, you can make a Datsun 120Y fly.

I did once get my Holden HJ ute to fly. That was due to a series of hilarious but disastrous events, starting with the throttle suddenly stuck ON (rusty throttle cable) at 110km/h, leaving the road to avoid another car, then into a ditch (it appeared out of nowhere) and then bouncing out again on the crappy suspension (I wisely chose, in that split second, to NOT brake), and ending with us flying through the air for some indeterminate distance (it was very dark) before finally stopping landing.

After that Dukes-of-Hazzard moment, my friend and I looked at each other with that look of understanding... that we are both somehow miraculously alive. Even better, the throttle had somehow become unstuck   WD40 on that sucker for next time.

Afterwards was tempted to paint red flying kangaroos near the rear tail lights (reference to Qantas).

[RandyT]

Still hasn’t left the ground.

 

Much safer that way

Are mechanically deployed parachutes a thing for these, in the event the gliding parts stop working?

[danny_galaga]

Still hasn’t left the ground.

 

Much safer that way

Are mechanically deployed parachutes a thing for these, in the event the gliding parts stop working?

Ballistic. Costs quite a lot. I think about 10k USD. I just have to hope the gliding bits (the wings) don't fall off I guess 😀

[danny_galaga]

Was going to bolt the propeller on today, but it seems the prop spacer that came with the kit doesn't suit wooden props. So I'll need to machine a simple aligner, basically a tube.

Next big thing is to sort out the brakes. They are freakin awful. I hate the design. I wish I'd gotten a tricycle undercarriage just so I can convert it into a simple handbrake. But I've been told doing that on a tail dragger means it will be almost impossible to taxi in crosswinds.

[bobbyb13]

Holy ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- is that cool.
I love it even if it never leaves the ground.

And that prop is a work of art.
Where the hell did you get something someone cared enough to make that beautiful?!

I would think that brakes only matter if you are trying to land in a small amount of space.
 

[Zebidee]

That prop is keeping everyone UP, so why not beautiful?

I love bright yellow - makes it easy to spot the plane when you crash

Looks fantastic, don't let my jibes bring you down (pun intended).

[danny_galaga]

Thanks guys!

There are still a few wooden prop makers around. A Tiger moth would just look wrong with a carbon fibre prop up the front 😄

It's actually pretty high tech. The leading edge is carbon fibre and the whole thing is covered in fibreglass.

I had the fibreglass parts of the aircraft painted at the factory. So I had a good look around at cars on the road. Needed to be something that was made in one place. No good picking a Toyota colour when there's maybe ten factories around the world. The plane kit is made in South Africa so whatever car colour I picked had to be the same there as in Australia.Likewise no point looking at pictures online because that's not a true Representation. I settled on 2018  ford mustang yellow 🙂

Yes brakes are great for short field landings, but sure are handy on start up too 😄. Also short field take offs because you can have full thrust before you roll. Gains a few precious metres

[nitrogen_widget]

Was going to bolt the propeller on today, but it seems the prop spacer that came with the kit doesn't suit wooden props. So I'll need to machine a simple aligner, basically a tube.

Next big thing is to sort out the brakes. They are freakin awful. I hate the design. I wish I'd gotten a tricycle undercarriage just so I can convert it into a simple handbrake. But I've been told doing that on a tail dragger means it will be almost impossible to taxi in crosswinds.

nice propeller.

also


$20.

[danny_galaga]

Was going to bolt the propeller on today, but it seems the prop spacer that came with the kit doesn't suit wooden props. So I'll need to machine a simple aligner, basically a tube.

Next big thing is to sort out the brakes. They are freakin awful. I hate the design. I wish I'd gotten a tricycle undercarriage just so I can convert it into a simple handbrake. But I've been told doing that on a tail dragger means it will be almost impossible to taxi in crosswinds.

nice propeller.

also


$20.

I'll need two for differential braking...

[pbj]

Nice color, it'll be easy to find and bring your family peace some day.   

How much left to do before it leaves the ground?

[danny_galaga]

Nice color, it'll be easy to find and bring your family peace some day.   

How much left to do before it leaves the ground?

Next major thing is those wretched brakes. I will do some investigating on the weekend. The toe brakes hit the firewall, preventing them from working when you are pressing full right rudder. I'm a little scared there's something fundamentally wrong that I can't fix (like maybe the firewall is further back than it should be) but that doesn't seem likely. So it's a conundrum. My only other thing to try is check the deflection. Maybe it goes much further than it needs to. The rudder was updated and there are instructions to measure the deflection. But there doesn't seem to be a system to limit the deflection. So maybe what I have to do is make a bracket that will limit the deflection, thus stopping the pedals hitting the firewall. I will also the kit engineer contact guy person. He's been pretty helpful.

I also need to finish off the electrical, which is quite funny I dragged my feet on that seeing as how I used to be an auto electrician 😂

[Zebidee]

I also need to finish off the electrical, which is quite funny I dragged my feet on that seeing as how I used to be an auto electrician 😂

I think I understand this reluctance.

It is a funny thing, but if I've ever done something professionally I hate doing it on my own time. Feels too much like work. Like, I spent many years until my mid-30's in all kinds of accounting roles, I'm good at it, but hate tasks like tracking costing for my own projects. I won't even do my own tax returns though they are simple enough.

[danny_galaga]

I also need to finish off the electrical, which is quite funny I dragged my feet on that seeing as how I used to be an auto electrician 😂

I think I understand this reluctance.

It is a funny thing, but if I've ever done something professionally I hate doing it on my own time. Feels too much like work. Like, I spent many years until my mid-30's in all kinds of accounting roles, I'm good at it, but hate tasks like tracking costing for my own projects. I won't even do my own tax returns though they are simple enough.

We call it 'plumbers tap' 😄

[bobbyb13]

"The cobblers children have no shoes..."
 

[danny_galaga]

So there's been a difference of opinion on what comes with the second hand engine I bought. There are some parts s missing off the carbies. Would cost over $300 landed for a few bits of metal that aren't even made for aircraft. Well one piece is but it's just a flat bit of steel. So I got some scrap metal for that piece, and AliExpress and a Go kart spare parts shop for the other bits. More like $50 and the satisfaction of not paying the Ro-tax 😄

[Zebidee]

Love how dodgy it seems at first glance: used motors with missing parts, bit n pieces from Aliexpress and go-karts. Yet I am optimistically confident you are doing it right (interpret as: I have no idea  ).

Work a little WD40 or similar into that throttle cable sheath and check it occasionally for corrosion - I got my 1975 Holden HZ ute airborne thanks to a stuck throttle, somehow survived, hate to think what it'd be like for someone airborne already.

[danny_galaga]

Love how dodgy it seems at first glance: used motors with missing parts, bit n pieces from Aliexpress and go-karts. Yet I am optimistically confident you are doing it right (interpret as: I have no idea  ).

Work a little WD40 or similar into that throttle cable sheath and check it occasionally for corrosion - I got my 1975 Holden HZ ute airborne thanks to a stuck throttle, somehow survived, hate to think what it'd be like for someone airborne already.

😄

First car I ever drove was a HQ. Tanks 😊

Interestingly, the Rotax carbies are full throttle as a default.springs hold them wide open. The idea being if a cable breaks you can still where you are going. If it broke and went to idle, you're gonna have to land. Only thing is that the engine is only rated to full power for a number of minutes. I think if it happened to me, I would switch off one of the ignition switches. You lose maybe 150 rpm. Would still be NEARLY full power but not totally wringing it's neck. Then alternate the switches every 5 minutes or so the plugs don't foul.

This weekend, I think I have everything I need to put in some oil and coolant and start him up. Of course nothing is ever easy. Imma guess you know how to change the oil on a car. Well forget all that on the Rotax! It's a dry sump engine. Basically to fill it up, you take off the return line on the oil tank. Point that into a container. Plug up the hole in the tank. Pressurise the tank to 10psi via the vent line. Take out the top spark plugs. Now spin the propeller around by hand maybe 100 turns 😜

Even most other aircraft enginesis roughly the same procedure as a car. Grrrr. Lucky there's a compressor in the hangar...

[nitrogen_widget]

so what is the difference between a rotax and a rotary engine or are they basically the same thing?

[danny_galaga]

Rotax is a brand, not a type. They make engines for motorcycles, jet skis, go karts aircraft.

A rotary engine is similar to a radial. So the cylinders are in a star formation. But CRANKSHAFT is bolted to the firewall and the propeller is bolted to the crankcase. The whole engine spins. Good cooling, HUGE torque (a 110hp rotary had more torque than a GT40!). but you can imagine a large unwanted gyroscopic effect. They were pretty much history after WWI.

The Rotax engine I'm running is a 4 cylinder 'boxer', like Subaru or Porsche etc.

[danny_galaga]

Milestone for the millstone


https://youtu.be/cPObCLKcieQ?si=Wp_gPVCQ2n4YtV4l

[nitrogen_widget]

is that how it's supposed to sound?
or does it need tuning?

[pbj]

I’ve told this story here before but it bears repeating.

So, I drove a home built car once.  It weighed 1400lbs and had 168 horse power.  It was the fastest vehicle I have ever driven.  But the guy that originally built it never drove it more than around the block. He was some kind of engineer that worked on satellites and had the guys in the shop assemble it after hours.  It was modeled after a BMW concept roadster that never went into production.

My dad bought it and let my wife and I take it down the highway.  And I’m not joking, you farted on the gas pedal and you were over 100mph.

Everything was great until it was time to go back home and we had to sit while a gate opened.

The genius had used an oil temperature gauge with rubber hosing.  While you were moving; there was enough air flow to keep things cool.  Have I mentioned the engine was open air and mounted directly behind the driver and passenger?  Gas tank was right beside it.

Anyway, long story short, the hose melted and sprayed oil all over the engine block.  I used to have hair halfway my back.  It caught fire.  I am thankful every day that a young girl came running out from the neighborhood pool with a fire extinguisher and saved me and kept the car from exploding.  I had second degree burns on my neck and back and got a clipper cut.  The haircut lady  was apologizing the entire time.

Quadruple check everything, Danny.  No weird ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- shortcuts. 

[danny_galaga]

Nitrogen widget, yeah notice it was fine to start and then went really rough? First I thought the carbs might simply be unbalanced, but I'm pretty sure now there's a blocked jet or cracked O ring etc in one or both carbies. I was able to easily get the bowls off to have a look. First glance looked good but then noticed the petrol 'varnish' that can build up. Cleaned all that out and checked the pilot jets but nothing out of the ordinary . So this weekend I'm taking them off completely and giving them a more thorough inspection at home. Mat need overhaul kits, which are over 200 USD each carbie. Ouch!

PBL, oil and fuel pressure lines in the cab give me the Willie's, for exactly your unfortunate experience. Electrical for me.
And yes, I'll be double quadruple checking everything. The aircraft mechanic at the field will also get his boys to go over it too. He will do the first hour flying. I'd love to be the first but it's not recommended. This guy has tested probably hundreds of aircraft in his time.

[danny_galaga]

Carbie. Notice the choke is quite a complicated beastie. Carbie also compensates for altitude so that it leans out the higher it goes. Not perfect, but acceptable

Edit: LEANS, not MEANS. stupid auto correct

[Zebidee]

Yikes, that does not look like fun.

I think I've already related how I once pulled apart the carbie from my Datsun 120Y, cleaned it, reassembled it, and everything worked 100%... but there were 4 parts left over!

Something like that clock we've probably all pulled apart as a kid.

Then there is the challenge of balancing twin carbs

Good luck! Give yourself a good clean space to work in. Take lots of photos (so you know how everything goes back together).

[danny_galaga]

Also, I'll completely do one carbie at a time, so I can also reference the other one

[nitrogen_widget]

is throttle body out of the question?
for an old car those things are great.
so easy to tune.

not sure if planes can even use them since more stuff can go wrong with them.
what about fuel injection?
or same reliability issues?

my dad has an old triumph that needs a full restore.
it was a straight 4 with dual carbs and if one had an issue he wasn't going anywhere enjoyably because two cylinders were getting more gas than the other 2.
Imagine it's like that?

yes i have not much of an idea so curious.

[danny_galaga]

There is a fuel injected version of this engine. Fuel injection is fairly popular in aircraft now, but not ubiquitous like in the auto world. Too expensive and too much mucking around for me to convert.

[danny_galaga]

Apparently the weight of the carby floats can increase over time. Something to do with it retaining too much fuel or summink. It's a big enough deal that I was going to just replace them regardless. But surprise, surprise- they ain't cheap! Luckily I found my little set of weights I made over 30 years ago when I had access to a really accurate set of digital scales. Smallest weight is 0.05 grams (50 milligrams ). So I knocked up a simple beam balance scale ⚖️ and weighed the floats. They come in pairs and can't weigh over 7 grams. Both sets came out at 3.2 and 3.15 😎

Yes, I could buy a set of accurate digital scales quite cheaply, but where's the fun in that? Building the scales was probably the most fun I've had with this airplane for months 😄

[nitrogen_widget]

sounds like the floats are not water or fuel tight right?
what about new floats?
IDK my small engine experience is my old log splitter with a pull start you have to wind manually and a magneto stopped providing spark and after futzing with magneto and about an hr of yanking on it with no luck total, my solution was to go look for a newer engine. which i found. it was so old it has a belt drive electric start, but it does have a coil. so newer!

i just have to wire it up properly now because it was on an old dead mower someone apparently stole the wiring from?.

[danny_galaga]

sounds like the floats are not water or fuel tight right?
what about new floats?

You need two pairs of these.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/tempest_ms80-430.php?clickkey=409219

[Zebidee]

Wow, you could probably buy a new log splitter for the cost of those floats!

I'm somewhat fascinated with why the floats get heavier over time, and if so, why the heck Rotax (or Marvel/Schebler) make them out of whatever material allows this to happen.

[danny_galaga]

Wow, you could probably buy a new log splitter for the cost of those floats!

I'm somewhat fascinated with why the floats get heavier over time, and if so, why the heck Rotax (or Marvel/Schebler) make them out of whatever material allows this to happen.

So they can sell you new ones 😁

The link I pointed to is an aftermarket one. They guarantee they won't soak up fuel.

[Zebidee]

Perhaps the aftermarket are worth it, but still seems like they are gouging.

I'm wondering, can you dry the old ones out? Like, wash them then leave then in the sun for an afternoon?

[danny_galaga]

Perhaps the aftermarket are worth it, but still seems like they are gouging.

I'm wondering, can you dry the old ones out? Like, wash them then leave then in the sun for an afternoon?

It's all academic. You might have missed the bit where I weighed them and they were well within spec.

I don't think 'drying' them out will achieve anything. In normal operation, the floats are in the fuel 24/7

[Zebidee]

Didn't miss anything, and agree. Just curious about the processes involved (chemical I assume) to make them heavier.

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, I'd never heard of such a problem before. Any other fuel float I'd seen was either stamped soldered brass or plastic. Apparently the older type of floats can spring a leak though so it's not simply a matter of 'they made 'em better in the old days'

[danny_galaga]

Well, it turned out I had the fuel IN line mixed up with the fuel RETURN line. It meant the carbies were only getting a small flow of fuel 😄

Well at least I know more about Bing carbies now I guess...

https://youtube.com/shorts/TQjM3ppLkf4?si=uFY5rDSDK6ggkx_7

[danny_galaga]

Progress. Brakes still suck though.

https://youtube.com/shorts/HykMX5Zuwoc?si=oqlwhcOXLNMEqSZ

[pbj]

Is 19-2010 when you started building this?

[Zebidee]

He's doing well, considering this was his first prototype

Power is 100% renewable, no carbies, no lithium battery to burn down your house, and you can recharge in seconds.

https://youtube.com/shorts/SyB1-iq5EBE?si=Xf8NBXdRZTjCmGel

[danny_galaga]

Is 19-2010 when you started building this?

😎

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,159241.msg1674921.html#msg1674921

[danny_galaga]

Well, I finally fixed the brakes. I can now turn left AND right when taxiing now 😀

[Zebidee]

  Whenever anybody talks about brakes on an aeroplane, I *always* think about Bugs Bunny saving the day with "air brakes" in the classic HB cartoon "Hare Lift".

Here's a link for your benefit - it is a shortened version of the cartoon, only 3 minutes with beginning and end, the air brakes bit is right near then end. Love it, classic nonsense!

[RandyT]

Well, I finally fixed the brakes. I can now turn left AND right when taxiing now 😀

Meh, waste of time.  You could have just made a circular runway and traveled it counter-clockwise

[danny_galaga]

Zebidee- love it!

RandyT. Even with a circular runway, a tail dragger is hard to keep under control on the ground with just one brake working 😄

[CheffoJeffo]

Posting here so that I receive notifications. All I ever see on FB are postings about food. 

[danny_galaga]

Posting here so that I receive notifications. All I ever see on FB are postings about food. 

That was just a phase...

[danny_galaga]

Decided I should put a battery isolator in.

[Zebidee]

You should also add some switches/buttons for the stinger missiles, bunker-bombs, self-guiding torpedoes and .50 cal machine guns.

It's the only way to be sure.

[danny_galaga]

You should also add some switches/buttons for the stinger missiles, bunker-bombs, self-guiding torpedoes and .50 cal machine guns.

It's the only way to be sure.

Have I mentioned the right hand toggle switch?

[Zebidee]

Have I mentioned the right hand toggle switch?

I do have a vague memory about chem trails, or was it a dream? Am too old to know the difference.

One would assume the "chem" tanks are loaded with something socially responsible like mustard gas.

[danny_galaga]

Of course! What could be more natural than mustard 😀

[danny_galaga]

I'm making a little duct for the cowl.I wanted to attach some pics but they failed a 'security check'.

Rest assured they were the most amazing pictures ever taken 

[Zebidee]

Don't be this guy - maiden flight of his home-made light plane:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-05/bunbury-airport-plane-crash-pilot-dies-in-hospital/103545882

[danny_galaga]

Yes..very sad. For some reason he was trying to fly it in some pretty ordinary conditions. First flights- dead calm or nothing. There was a bit of a kerfuffle on a flying forum I'm on. This crash was being discussed and somehow someone had latched onto a name and pretty soon it was assumed he was the deceased. The guy, joined up just to say the reports of his death were greatly exaggerated.

[danny_galaga]

Great, I've taken so long to build it, the factory has gone bust.

[pbj]

There’s your sign.

Also, watch the Simon Riggs crash footage.  The little rescue parachute deploying after his plane has exploded will give you great insight to the indifference of the universe.

[danny_galaga]

There’s your sign.

Also, watch the Simon Riggs crash footage.  The little rescue parachute deploying after his plane has exploded will give you great insight to the indifference of the universe.

 I dont know what I'm looking at on youtube. Link?

[pbj]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kSRcmjLllHY

[Howard_Casto]

Great, I've taken so long to build it, the factory has gone bust.

I'm no expert but when an airplane factory goes out of business there's probably a reason.  Probably best to throw it away and consider it a learning experience. 

[danny_galaga]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kSRcmjLllHY

That would be comical if it weren't for the fact we probably just watched someone die. Looks like a spin. Pilot error. Cirrus is a very safe, but very expensive light aircraft. Those chutes have arguably saved a number of lives. I think just searching Cirrus parachute on YouTube should net some results

Howard, people can have great products and still go broke. I've had my issues with them but the aircraft itself isa sound design.

It happens in the aircraft world from time to time. Unfortunately, me and Mr Murphy Law are close friends 😄

[Zebidee]

To put things into better perspective, in Queensland during 2022:

- 72 Motorcycle riders died due to transport accidents
- 12 Aircraft occupants died due to powered aircraft accidents

Maybe flying is the safer option.

[Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3303.0 Causes of Death, Queensland, 2022, V20-29, V95]

[danny_galaga]

To put things into better perspective, in Queensland during 2022:

- 72 Motorcycle riders died due to transport accidents
- 12 Aircraft occupants died due to powered aircraft accidents

Maybe flying is the safer option.

[Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3303.0 Causes of Death, Queensland, 2022, V20-29, V95]

Yes, they used to say its safer than driving a car. But I dont think thats the case anymore. But, I was thinking the other day that its much safer than riding a motorbike, since you don't have drunk drivers and geriatrics gunning for you when you're in a plane

[danny_galaga]

I've been diligently double checking everything by starting from page 1 in the build manual, methodically checking every bolt and cable etc. I found a loose bolt 😲. Dismaying there was one, but good to know the methodical check picked it up. I'm just over half way through the manual now. I bought a cheap borescope to get to the hard to see places. Definitely worth buying even if it just gets used once a year.

[RandyT]

To put things into better perspective, in Queensland during 2022:

- 72 Motorcycle riders died due to transport accidents
- 12 Aircraft occupants died due to powered aircraft accidents

Maybe flying is the safer option.

[Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3303.0 Causes of Death, Queensland, 2022, V20-29, V95]

Yes, they used to say its safer than driving a car. But I dont think thats the case anymore. But, I was thinking the other day that its much safer than riding a motorbike, since you don't have drunk drivers and geriatrics gunning for you when you're in a plane

I've had a couple of close calls on a cycle with drivers pulling right in front of me.  One time with a passenger and I had to take the bike sideways and still stopped only inches from the vehicle.  Caused me to keep my eyes glued on vehicles stopped at on-roads from then on.

But statistics will be statistics.  It's not the total number of fatalities which are important, but the overall percentage of fatalities for the number of active operators.  I would suspect that there are a LOT more cycles on the roads than hobbyists buzzing around the skies. 

This discussion reminds me of a saying about the old days on the autobahn where there was no speed-limit.  As a whole, you were very unlikely to get in an accident on the Autobahn.  But if you did, it would almost certainly mean that someone was going to die in the most gruesome of ways.  This is how I view personal aircraft, except maybe with an increased chance of something bad happening.

Everyone has to go at some point.  It might as well be while doing what you love.

[Zebidee]

But statistics will be statistics.  It's not the total number of fatalities which are important, but the overall percentage of fatalities for the number of active operators.  I would suspect that there are a LOT more cycles on the roads than hobbyists buzzing around the skies. 

You are correct to point this out. However, those statistics compare JUST motorcycle rider fatalities with ALL power aircraft occupant fatalities - which means it includes everything from large commercial aircraft to things like helicopters and light planes and ultralights (but not gliders). There is no further breakdown, and that category covers a lot of people doing a lot of stuff, not just ultralight hobbyists. Queensland is BIG, people fly there a lot and for many reasons.

No doubt, motorcycles can be quite dangerous even if you are careful. A lot of what makes them dangerous is other drivers with poor awareness.

For the curious, there were a total of 324 transport accident related deaths in Queensland for 2022 (V01-V99).

Interestingly 11 people died due to "Sleep disorders (G47)"   Even sleeping is dangerous. A further 4 people died from falling off chairs (W07), so sitting can be dangerous too.

Life is short, don't worry too much, do what makes you happy, just please try to be as safe as reasonably possible.

[danny_galaga]

2.6 times the size of Texas

[RandyT]

That is pretty large.  Land mass really isn't that much if an indicator though.  People don't travel on long trips like they used to before Skype, Covid, etc. But people do still commute, go to the store and visit friends locally.

If you really want to know how safe an activity is, you have to do what insurance companies attempt to do, which is determine the number of hours on the road/ in the sky and compare that to the fatality record.  Good luck coming up with accurate numbers though.  Flight logs probably make this easy for aircraft, but there are no accurate records of that nature for cycles.

[danny_galaga]

Actuaries have their methods. And it's reflected in the premiums- a light plane costs a lot more to insure than a motorbike, so I guess really riding a bike is safer. But PERSONALLY I feel safer in the air than on a motorbike.
Incidentally, what type of plane it is effects your premium too. Mines not quite ready to insure but I know that because my plane is a tail dragger, the premium is roughly $1000 a year ON TOP of premium. If I had built the tricycle version of my kit, I'd save $1000 a year on insurance. Why?They fly exactly the same. But tail draggers are more likely to have accidents on the ground when taking off or landing. Usually a ground loop. Not normally resulting in any injury, but can cause damage to the plane.

[RandyT]

Trying not to sound too grim here, but caskets are a lot cheaper than extended medical stays.  And aircraft are much more costly than cycles.  Two things which probably get factored into the premiums in a substantial way.  So insurance costs probably aren't really great indicators of safety either, regardless of how good their estimations of use happen to be. 

IOW, insurance companies are MUCH more concerned with the fiscal aspects than human life and limb. You'd probably need to get ahold of some of those closely guarded internal numbers to get a real feel for what they believe with regard to actual safety of the activity.

[danny_galaga]

Trying not to sound too grim here, but caskets are a lot cheaper than extended medical stays.  And aircraft are much more costly than cycles.  Two things which probably get factored into the premiums in a substantial way.  So insurance costs probably aren't really great indicators of safety either, regardless of how good their estimations of use happen to be. 

IOW, insurance companies are MUCH more concerned with the fiscal aspects than human life and limb. You'd probably need to get ahold of some of those closely guarded internal numbers to get a real feel for what they believe with regard to actual safety of the activity.

Agreed. Insurance companies use very complicated math to come to their conclusions. In fact, if you are an actuary, high level physics is no big deal. Certainly is interesting that my insurance will cost about $1000 more than the exact same plane that has a wheel at the front, instead of the back. Makes sense of course, had I thought harder about it when buying the kit, I might have gone tricycle. But tail draggers just LOOK cooler 😀 . And of course have a little less drag. And keep your rudder skills sharp.

[Zebidee]

You're right about death being cheaper in general. Say you accidentally hit someone with your car. Often you'd be better off killing the person than causing a major injury like spinal damage, for which you could be liable for a lot more (medical & recuperation, pain & suffering, etc).

Insurance companies know this.

But yeah, Queensland is bigger than it looks on a map and has a lot of remote areas that are (realistically) only accessible by plane or helicopter. Especially in the far north and west, but coastal regions too (there are many islands). It takes about 3 days driving to get from Brisbane to Cairns, 2 days only if you really push it. In addition to going from A to B, people use helicopters to herd cattle and track crocodiles, visit islands and perform rescues, and hundreds of other things.

There was a famous crocodile wrangler that died in a helicopter accident in 2022, has a court case attached, but unfortunately and inconveniently for us, that happened in the Northern Territory (next door).

Most of the data actuaries use is in public domain if you care to look for it (in one of my hats I am a data analyst, but have better things to do unless someone wants to pay me). But going on my gut feeling, as I also grew up in Queensland and know motorbikes, is that ultralights seem a lot safer. Even tail-draggers.

[danny_galaga]

But going on my gut feeling, as I also grew up in Queensland and know motorbikes, is that ultralights seem a lot safer. Even tail-draggers.

😁

As an aside, I grew up in the Northern Territory. Even in the NT, we looked on at QLD like you were all rednecks 😂. Once Joh was gone, a lot of us realised 'Hey, its a nice place, and not EVERYONE from QLD is a fascist ' 😀

[Zebidee]

Unfortunately I know exactly what you mean lol. Yeah it is true. Lots of "rednecks", at least in Central Qld. Far from everyone obviously, many great folks too and I have some good friends from those days, but yeah.

I lived in Qld from roughly ages 9 to 17 - before that I was riding motorbikes n other stuff around a farm in NSW. We only went there because my old man got a great job at Rocky Grammar (Central Qld). Even though I'd come from a rural area already, Queenslanders were a shock to my innocent nine year-old southern self. Bullying at the schools was rife, so I survived by joining a nerd gang (played D&D). Luckily I eventually escaped by getting into Uni in Canberra. Was like breathing fresh air again.

Nowadays, I'd maybe like it there again but maybe a bit closer to Brisvegas. Rocky is too hot & humid, so somewhere south from there.

[danny_galaga]

Just so happens the latest issue of Sport Pilot Magazine has safety stats for dec23-mar24. So these stats are only for aircraft in my category, which is ultralight/LSA

3 fatal accidents
4 aircraft destroyed
14 aircraft damaged
7 injuries
17 flight training occurrences
30 private operation occurrences

Not actually sure what they mean by 'occurences', unless it's the same as 'incidents'.

Sadly one of those fatal accidents was at my airfield, in January. Two deaths, my flying instructor and a new owner of an aircraft that my instructor was giving conversion training to.

[Zebidee]

Are those stats for Australia or just for Queensland?

Sorry to hear about the fatalities. Deaths are never good

[danny_galaga]

That's the whole of Australia. RA-AUS, which is a licensing organisation for ultralights, LSA etc. I have a regular licence, but it was a hassle to keep it current. The RA-AUS license is easier to maintain, but has some limitations. Weight limit is the big one. My GA (general aviation ) licence allows up to 5400kg mtow. A DC3 is roughly twice that, so some pretty big planes. My rpc (recreational pilot certificate) has a maximum of 600kg mtow. Also only one passenger,no aerobatics, no night flying. It's a good compromise if you just want to fly for fun 🙂

[danny_galaga]

.

[Zebidee]

Beautiful

[RandyT]

If she flies as good as she looks, you'll be the envy of the airfield.  Great work!

[danny_galaga]

Instrument panel is finally completely installed.it was just hanging on one bolt and some tape for the longest time, just in case I had to take it out to modify etc. now it's in, it's never coming out again as it will be a PITA to remove.

It looks great, but apparently the photo failed security checks 🤷‍♂️

[Zebidee]

Might be just the pic is too large - try resizing it, save as a jpg etc

[danny_galaga]

.

[bobbyb13]

WOW is that impressive.
Beautiful even if it never left the ground.

The prop alone looks like a work of art.

 

[danny_galaga]

.

[Zebidee]

Lol

Do the cute little pictograms actually mean anything, or are they just for decoration? The graph has two obvious axes (age, death probability), so is there a third dataset? I guess not, no attribution either. I'm being too fussy.

Must be just for fun as I see two cyclists in very different spots (and both seem to be wearing helmets too)! Looking at it in a different way, seems to suggest that people over 100 must like skydiving a lot   

How is the plane coming along?

[danny_galaga]

Yeah, unfortunately it's part of a bigger 'picture", the age context doesn't make much sense there does it  😄

Basically, it was showing your chances of dying in the next 1000 hours of continuing with a particular activity. Baseline is commercial jet airline travel, 0.01%. driving a car is four times more deadly at 0.04% but clearly still pretty safe . I think motorcycling was something like 0.6%, which is over a magnitude higher than cars. Flying light aircraft gets you into the 'climby' part of the graph at something like 1.6%. looks a small number, but 160 times more dangerous than airline travel!

The top dude is climbing Mt Everest! The two bikes are regular cycling and downhill mountain biking.

Way off the charts is basejumping and F1 racing. I think base jumping had you at 94% change of dying in the next 1000 hours of activity which made it 9400 times as dangerous as airline travel 😄. F1 racing was only about half as dangerous as base jumping!

[Zebidee]

The top dude is climbing Mt Everest! The two bikes are regular cycling and downhill mountain biking.

Oh, that makes sense! You can see the difference between the bikes if you look closely (road bike vs offroad).



 

[PL1]

Way off the charts is basejumping and F1 racing. I think base jumping had you at 94% change of dying in the next 1000 hours of activity which made it 9400 times as dangerous as airline travel 😄. F1 racing was only about half as dangerous as base jumping!

The important context here is "the next 1000 hours of activity".

Pretty sure there are many F1 drivers who have racked up over 1000 hours of racing time.

Assuming that the average BASE jump lasts less than one minute from jump to touchdown, it would take over 60,000 jumps to rack up 1000 hours of actual jump time.  AFAIK the record number of BASE jumps is 4008 by Miles Daisher.  (ref)

Even if the chart makers assumed an average jump took 15 minutes to pack the chute, 4 minutes to gear up, 10 minutes to climb/move into position, and 1 minute of jump time, it would take 2000 jumps to rack up 1000 hours of activity.

Short duration + severe consequences for mistakes is what makes the numerical rating for BASE jumping so insanely high on this chart.

Two parting thoughts:






Scott

[danny_galaga]

I think this might go a long way to explaining why base jumpers have a shorter life expectancy (clue, the term is 'self entitlement' 😄 )

Language warning

https://youtu.be/TLsf7PjW11A?si=i4TJeUF8NuTETahw

[pbj]

You’re spending an awful lot of time trying to convince us this isn’t dangerous.

Wheels left the ground yet?

[danny_galaga]

You’re spending an awful lot of time trying to convince us this isn’t dangerous.

Wheels left the ground yet?

Yes. One at a time- I had to replace some parts in the undercarriage already 😄

[danny_galaga]

Most important part went on yesterday - a cartoon of its pilot as Axel

[danny_galaga]

Well, it's down to paperwork now. Weight and balance logging is the next step.

I now haven't flown for 7 months in anything, and a number of YEARS in a tail dragger, so I'm going to do a refresher course. Not cheap of course...

[pbj]

[danny_galaga]

GERRY DOWN!

[danny_galaga]

This is what $900 of weighing looks like

[bobbyb13]

I like the technique here!
What was the final number?

[RandyT]

This is what $900 of weighing looks like

I would have been tempted to find the center of balance and put a bottle jack on a scale

[danny_galaga]

This is what $900 of weighing looks like

I would have been tempted to find the center of balance and put a bottle jack on a scale

😄

There's a standard procedure for all this. You start with a datum point and then measure back from there..in this case  it's 100mm out from the wing strut attachment, plumb bob down to the ground. With the correct info, you can plug in the weights for each flight, in my case it would normally be pilot/passenger, how much fuel and two different luggage locations. Then you can see if it sits within the flight envelope. There can be situations where it's within the envelope when taking off, but if the fuel is nearly empty, it will be out of balance.

Now imagine how complicated that is for a jet airliner!  I'm going to bet that whenever you have whole rugby teams etc in board, they'll be in the front 😃

[RandyT]

That's why I don't fly.  I'm lucky if I take a minute to kick the tires on my vehicle before piling in and driving off. 

But on the large jet airliners, I get the feeling that the engines are so powerful and the passengers/cargo make up such a small percentage of the overall weight distribution, it only becomes an issue if they get overloaded.  I could be wrong, but I have never seen passengers moved around on a half-booked flight or the luggage guys do anything other than just toss the baggage into the hull of the craft "willy-nilly".

[danny_galaga]

The further away from the centre of gravity, the more effect it will have. Trust me, you may never see them ever have to move people around, but they have to do those calculations by law. If you think about it, 100 passengers is maybe 8000kg. That's not insignificant.. pretty much any wing stalls at about 14° angle of attack. If that's exceeded it doesn't matter how powerful the engine is, you've stalled. And if you are tail heavy, you may not have enough elevator to unstall it. In fact being tail heavy probably caused the stall in the first place.
Here's the basics of what happens with weight and balance

https://aerocorner.com/blog/aircraft-weight-and-balance/

https://youtube.com/shorts/nkYgznZLgyo?si=VvVBVoSdhWv6SpX3

[RandyT]

The further away from the centre of gravity, the more effect it will have. Trust me, you may never see them ever have to move people around, but they have to do those calculations by law. If you think about it, 100 passengers is maybe 8000kg. That's not insignificant.. pretty much any wing stalls at about 14° angle of attack. If that's exceeded it doesn't matter how powerful the engine is, you've stalled. And if you are tail heavy, you may not have enough elevator to unstall it. In fact being tail heavy probably caused the stall in the first place.
Here's the basics of what happens with weight and balance

https://aerocorner.com/blog/aircraft-weight-and-balance/

https://youtube.com/shorts/nkYgznZLgyo?si=VvVBVoSdhWv6SpX3

I think the thing that makes commercial airlines a bit more forgiving is that the wings (and engines) are pretty much centered with the cargo.  I'm not sure it's possible for the positioning of people to throw that off beyond what the flaps, etc. are rated for, unless for some reason 1st class and half of coach is empty and everyone else is sitting together.  But on the luggage side of things, I can see them weighing the carts full of luggage, and doing their best to distribute that as evenly as possible in multiple holds.

But like you said, in the case of a rugby team, they would flock together.  Everyone else would find a new seat and naturally disperse if allowed to (from personal experience.)  Although, I'm not sure that is permitted anymore.

On the flip side, I wonder how all of that changes when the craft is empty.  I know they are loathe to move them in that state, but I imagine it must be done on occasion.

[pbj]

Yeah, I’ve been asked to move before for weight distribution.  Can’t recall having to do it on anything like a 737, but it’s happened several times on smaller ones.  Hooray obesity.

[danny_galaga]

As long as you are under 160, we can fly in my plane 🙂Although at 160, I do t think we can carry any fuel...

[pbj]

So, it turns out the US Postal Service has a museum.  It’s actually fairly interesting and apparently nobody goes to it.  It is also impossible to buy stamps or mail anything there on Sundays - they sent me across the street to Walgreens.  I think if there’s one place in the world that you’d at least have a stamp machine and a Mail Drop is the US Postal Service museum but apparently not.

Anyway, TL:DR - saw these, thought of you

 

[danny_galaga]

I have a pair of cheap retro flying goggles. I bought it to ride in The Distinguished Gentleman's Ride one year. I think I might wear them in my plane. Thanks for the idea 🙂

[danny_galaga]

Ghetto jack ftw

[pbj]

I got in a hot air balloon last weekend.  Pure, unadulterated terror.  Godspeed, Danny.

[nipsmg]

I just got my PPL recently and have been toying with building an ultralight-- then completely scrapped the idea because I'm an idiot who takes on too many projects but never finishes any of them.

This looks spectacular!  What did you end up with as useful load after the W&B?   And did you go with the 912?  And are you PPL or sport pilot? Are you even in the US? so many questions.

[danny_galaga]

so many questions.

😄

I got my ppl in the 90's and then let it go. About 6 years ago I converted it to what I guess you call a sports licence. I'm in Australia.

I've regretted starting this almost from the beginning. If you start too many projects, which I do, then starting this sort of project may kill you psychologically. It has me.

But some tips if you are think about it:


Don't believe the manufacturers BS - they will say you can build it in six weeks and that there's nothing extra you need to get. They all say this. And all kits have things missing or wrong or both in my case. Even as it was at sea on the way to me, they issued an AD on it! They were grounded for a short while in the US I believe. So once I got it I had to build it knowing that the whole empennage would have to be replaced. The updated parts took over a year to be produce. I actually had to replace a lot of the rear end of the fuselage. But you couldn't really know until you got to that point. Very, very unsatisfying having to pull apart what you've only just built. Then there's all the missing/incorrect parts you come across as you're building.

I get disappointed easily. This has been the most unfun thing I've ever done.but it's way too expensive to ditch like you could with a mame cab that didn't quite work out.

Don't get me wrong, it's not something I DONT recommend doing. But if you have traits not dissimilar to mine, think twice.

Think- if there are hurdles like that, do I have the personality to rise to the occasion and get on with, never looking back. Think about other projects you've done that you have unfinished and why.

All kit manufacturers act like it's a box of Lego with everything there and perfectly designed. If you have a strong personality, and ignore the BS, knowing there are going to be exasperating moments then you'll probably be fine.

Me, around the time I bought the kit, I was toying with buying a T bucket or similar. I would have had MUCH more fun in those years I've been building this thing.

Anyway, the most joy I get with this kit now is complaining about it 😄

There's about 240kg total usable load.

Oh and the kit manufacturer? They've gone broke ..

[RandyT]

All kit manufacturers act like it's a box of Lego with everything there and perfectly designed. If you have a strong personality, and ignore the BS, knowing there are going to be exasperating moments then you'll probably be fine.

Sounds like every Chinese scooter/ATV (and quite a number of other things from that corner of the world) I have ever purchased.  But it usually ends up ok at the end...usually.

[danny_galaga]

All kit manufacturers act like it's a box of Lego with everything there and perfectly designed. If you have a strong personality, and ignore the BS, knowing there are going to be exasperating moments then you'll probably be fine.

Sounds like every Chinese scooter/ATV (and quite a number of other things from that corner of the world) I have ever purchased.  But it usually ends up ok at the end...usually.

😄

There were actually two kit manufacturers (out of hundreds) that were 100% complete for EVERY kit .the first was the Christensen Eagle. Pretty much the father of the modern kit. The other was the Quicksilver MX. They both utilised a simple fool proof system. It's boggling that no one else seems to use it. Basically you would have sheets of cardboard printed with everything single part shadowed and described. Now you have a guy place all those parts on the shadow. Then he covers it in heat seal vacuum clear plastic. Very very easy to see something is amiss. For instance a missing part would stand out. Also say a bolt that is too long or short will stand out. The person packing those sheets just has to go off a checklist but if they are just numbered say 1-50 you don't even need that.

As you build your plane, only when the manual asks for it, you cut the part out with a single edged razor. Maybe factories don't do it now because it might take up more space. But where's the savings if you have to keep sending parts out to your increasingly irate customer? I reckon my guys spent over $1000 on DHL freight sending me missing parts. Right at the beginning, the engine mount had some corrosion on it. Something went wrong with the plating process. So they sent me another mount IN A CARDBOARD BOX!  Yep, when I got it, it was bent. So then they had to send me another, this time in a small wooden crate

[danny_galaga]

The only two manufacturers in mind that could guarantee a quality product were at extreme ends of the scale. The Eagle was a fully aerobatic plane powered by usually a Continental 0360. About 200hp. The MX was an early ultralight powered by something like a 30hp single cylinder two stroke.

[nitrogen_widget]

As long as you are under 160, we can fly in my plane 🙂Although at 160, I do t think we can carry any fuel...

KG's or LB's?

[bobbyb13]

That Eagle is one badass looking machine!

Everybody can keep the gocarts with wings that look like kites I used to fly as a kid.

[danny_galaga]

As long as you are under 160, we can fly in my plane 🙂Although at 160, I do t think we can carry any fuel...

TV
KG's or LB's?

KG's. Lbs is from the olden days. We are now in the future 🙂

[danny_galaga]

That Eagle is one badass looking machine!

Everybody can keep the gocarts with wings that look like kites I used to fly as a kid.

Fantastic isn't it? It's not for beginners though. You need to have an aerobatic endorsement ideally to fly this, and be proficient. And it's probably thousands of hours to build, as opposed to probably less than 100 for the Quicksilver.

[pbj]

How about a gokart with a parachute and fan?

https://www.easyflight.com/

You could have been in the air five years ago with one of these.

[danny_galaga]

How about a gokart with a parachute and fan?

https://www.easyflight.com/

You could have been in the air five years ago with one of these.

I know, dammit. One time I was flying over a lake and saw one just pootling along a few hundred feet above the trees. And I thought 'now THAT'S flying'. And if something goes wrong, you've already got a parachute 😃

Mind you, you are very limited in what you can do. Same with the Quicksilver. Best for crack of dawn, or late afternoon when the air is more likely to be calm. And no passenger.

[bobbyb13]

Looks like there are two person versions of those powered parachutes to be had for $50k.
Could be really fun in the right place/time.

[danny_galaga]

Looks like there are two person versions of those powered parachutes to be had for $50k.
Could be really fun in the right place/time.

😲

50k USD is probably about what I've spent on a real airplane. Seems to me theyve missed the point of what a powered parachute should be about

[bobbyb13]

It is impressive that you have only spent that much to be able to build such a cool machine.

I would think that for group float activity ballooning would be far more fun than dangling from a parachute with somebody..