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1UP Arcade is planning to sell full kits and cabinets!

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Marc:
1up, I've got a couple questions/comments about the controls...  

1.) It looks like the Tron handles (looks like you'll be replacing these with trigger sticks) are a bit close together on the second control panel.  Is there anything keeping you from moving the right side one a little further over towards the right, besides the fact that the panel looks better when it's totally symmetrical?  It seems like 2 player games that use this panel might have the participants bumping into each other.     Moving the sticks further apart would also seem to leave more room between them for accessing the spinner and the trackball (looks kinda tight in there now)...

2.) I've seen that virtually all the combination control panels available today (with the 8 way sticks) have the 4 way stick way up at the top of the panel.  while this configuration doesn't look like an issue with a standalone controller(where the display is positioned wherever makes sense), with a cabinet setup it seems like this would have the player hunched over the control panel with their head right up against the monitor glass.  Is there some logistical problem with moving the 4 way further back into the center of the panel or even way back to the bottom side?  This seems like it would be a much preferable setup for the 4 way without interfering much at all with the 8 ways...

3.) With the steering wheel option on the 3rd control panel will there be any additional controls?  I'm just wondering what games will be of much use with just the wheel and no pedals...   ???

I'm a novice with this stuff, and to this juncture am not incredibly familiar with most of the games supported by MAME.  So I may be off-base here, but I'm a bit more concerned with having ergononmically comfortable and useable controls as opposed to perfect symmetry (for the controls) of appearance...

Just some thoughts.


p.s.  I also sent you email with these same comments
 
p.p.s.  By the way, guys, I'm one of the ones on 1up's mailing list and waiting anxiously for the production cabinets...     ;D

1UP:

--- Quote from: Marc on February 21, 2004, 06:36:58 pm ---1.) It looks like the Tron handles (looks like you'll be replacing these with trigger sticks) are a bit close together on the second control panel.  Is there anything keeping you from moving the right side one a little further over towards the right, besides the fact that the panel looks better when it's totally symmetrical?  It seems like 2 player games that use this panel might have the participants bumping into each other.     Moving the sticks further apart would also seem to leave more room between them for accessing the spinner and the trackball (looks kinda tight in there now)...
--- End quote ---

The only reason they are so close together is that I like to stand centered when playing 1 player dual stick games like Battlezone.  I don't know of any 2 player games that use trigger sticks, so this was not even a consideration.  (I know they probably exist, but I've never played them.  If you can think of any, let me know.)  

The panel was pretty much designed to play Battle Zone, Missile Command, Tempest, and Tron.  When I designed my prototype for this panel, I basically just held my hands where they felt comfortable, marked the board and drilled.  Actually, I did put a lot more thought than that into the layout of the Tron panel.  I measured it to be symmetrical and made sure there was enough room to mount the trackball in between.  The placement of the trackball and spinner were carefully considered, so that none interferes with the other.  There are several inches of spare room around my hands at all times.  I have never found this arrangement to be uncomfortable or awkward.


--- Quote ---2.) I've seen that virtually all the combination control panels available today (with the 8 way sticks) have the 4 way stick way up at the top of the panel.  while this configuration doesn't look like an issue with a standalone controller(where the display is positioned wherever makes sense), with a cabinet setup it seems like this would have the player hunched over the control panel with their head right up against the monitor glass.  Is there some logistical problem with moving the 4 way further back into the center of the panel or even way back to the bottom side?  This seems like it would be a much preferable setup for the 4 way without interfering much at all with the 8 ways...
--- End quote ---

Something I've learned during this project, is that if everyone does something exactly the same way, then there's a reason for it.  Moving the 4 way down to the center brings it much closer to player 2's hand.  Bring it down to the front edge of the panel, and it's a fraction of an inch from his wrist.  This virtually assures that at some point, player 2's hand will bump the 4-way, which is daisy chained to player 1's stick.  Bumping elbows is one thing, it's quite another when you're actually moving the other player's joystick.  Take a look at the pic below, and tell me which position is least likely to cause problems:


Another reason for this arrangement is that it's usually better to have your buttons either directly to the side of the stick, or slightly lower than the stick--it's just more comfortable that way.  I would feel very uncomfortable playing Galaga with the stick down near the front of the panel.  Besides, my 4 way is only 2 inches farther back than the 8 ways.  I can switch from using the left stick to the middle stick without changing my position at all, other than a slight side-step to recenter myself.  Two inches is not enough to make you go from a comfortable upright position to hunched over with forehead pressed to plexi unless you're Mini Me.


--- Quote ---3.) With the steering wheel option on the 3rd control panel will there be any additional controls?  I'm just wondering what games will be of much use with just the wheel and no pedals...   ???
--- End quote ---

I thought that I had mentioned this before but...pedals will be another add-on option.  I am devising a way to have them mounted on a base that clamps to the bottom edge of the front kickplate.  My intention is to make the wheel and yoke interchangeable, so you don't have to choose one or the other.  Of course, if you go for a yoke instead, you don't really need pedals, as the y-axis works well as an accelerator and brake.  I've personally used my yoke as steering wheel and accelerator in Spy Hunter, with good results.

Marc:
Thanks for the responses.  They all make sense.  You *had* mentioned the pedals before, but it seemed like you meant they'd be available in the future and not necessarily along with initial cabinet builds...

And since I'm not the size of mini me I guess there's not an issue with the 4 way...     :)

XtraSmiley:
I was going to buy a slikstik quad in 3-5 months time will ALL the fixins.  Price is not a barrier, but looks/functions/quality is.  I'm not sure I like the way your product looks yet (not that I don't like them, just not sure), but the functions are awesome.  Slikstik looks more professional, but I realize you are just starting (and that was your home one on the website).  I'd like to be kept updated on your progress.  Once you are done, if it looks like a pro job, I will not not let price be a factor in which product I choose.  Also, I'm looking at the kit as opposed to the fully built b/c I like to do a bit of it myself (even though you real "pros" like to build from scratch)!  Thanks, and even if I go with SS, you are doing a damn fine job!

1UP:

--- Quote from: XtraSmiley on February 22, 2004, 02:27:46 am ---I was going to buy a slikstik quad in 3-5 months time will ALL the fixins.  Price is not a barrier, but looks/functions/quality is.  I'm not sure I like the way your product looks yet (not that I don't like them, just not sure), but the functions are awesome.  Slikstik looks more professional, but I realize you are just starting (and that was your home one on the website).  I'd like to be kept updated on your progress.  Once you are done, if it looks like a pro job, I will not not let price be a factor in which product I choose.  Also, I'm looking at the kit as opposed to the fully built b/c I like to do a bit of it myself (even though you real "pros" like to build from scratch)!  Thanks, and even if I go with SS, you are doing a damn fine job!


--- End quote ---

Heheh...you should see what I have on my screen right now!  ;D  As I said before, this is not just a rebuild, but a whole new design!  I am taking several steps to ensure that my production cabinets will be worthy of your game room.

First, I am in the process of modifying my 3D model as we speak, adding improvements, removing unnecessary parts, drafting new and improved parts, evaluating new materials etc.  I am also creating new graphics to go on the panels and marquee, partly to avoid any copyright problems I would have if I marketed the cab with Pac-Man, Tron and -gasp- Star Wars graphics!   :o  The new graphics will also improve the look of the product, and hopefully add a more broad appeal.  I do realize that my favorite games are not necessarily everyone else's!

I am also right in the middle of upgrading and finally putting the finishing touches on my home cab.  In the process, I am finding that certain parts have worn faster than I anticipated, and others have not performed as well as I had hoped.  While I am very satisfied with the layout of my controls, I am rethinking some of my control choices for functional and aestetic reasons.  All of these observations will result in improvements in the final product.

The third thing I will be doing is a little bit of lab research.  This means putting my finished home cab into an environment where it will be played constantly.  The plan is to finish the last little touches tomorrow, then haul my cab down to the studio in Santa Monica where I work, and let everyone do their worst.  I realize that it may end up getting damaged, but it will be worth it to discover how user friendly the rotation feature is, how often it gets used, and how much damage can be done by those who may be a little careless with it.  All this info will go into further design changes, for a hopefully foolproof product.

Once all this is done, I will spit out a CAD drawing, have the cabinet shop do the CNC programming, and start crankin' out cabs!  The final production model should have a lot more fit and finish, considering how many complements I get on the professional look (at least on the outside...) of my home cab.  My cab is a total homebrewed hack job, done with absolutely no knowledge of profesional woodworking -- imagine what professional cabinet makers can do with it!

Lastly, I will be using custom machined parts for the rotation mechanism, no more hacked Home Depot stuff!  This will result in a smoother, tighter locking mechanism.  All the externally visible screws and marquee/bezel retainers will be anodized black.  The marquee will probably be back-printed right on the lexan.

Have I convinced you yet?  :)

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