Combining mame and console

[DesiredOutcome]

How does this work? Are console games easily acessible through mame or do you need to setup up a seperate operation for each console?

How would you recommend setting up an all in one cab for arcade and console without making it look like Cthulhu's butthole after taco bell.

[Howard_Casto]

Well, in theory at least, mame and mess are combined so you can just use mame and be done with it.  In practice many of mame's emulated consoles aren't fully emulated or don't perform well ect. 

That being said there aren't a ton of console games that work well on an arcade cabinet.  Most are designed for long play and even with a stool/chair that gets real old real fast on a cab.

[DrakeTungsten]

What do you mean by "set up a separate operation"? Arcade and console emulation can be built into a single mame executable (which I belive is the default), but the command line for a console game must include the name of the console as well as a console-specific media argument.

Is your second paragraph talking about the control panel? I would just stick with console games which control like arcade games. I have about 40 console games in my cab and they don't use a single button I wasn't already using for arcade games.

[DesiredOutcome]

What do you mean by "set up a separate operation"? Arcade and console emulation can be built into a single mame executable (which I belive is the default), but the command line for a console game must include the name of the console as well as a console-specific media argument.

Is your second paragraph talking about the control panel? I would just stick with console games which control like arcade games. I have about 40 console games in my cab and they don't use a single button I wasn't already using for arcade games.

One program for arcade and another program for console.

Im postive tenchu doesnt have arcade comtrols. What games are you playing that have just arcade controls?

[DrakeTungsten]

I'm playing 8-bit and 16-bit shooters and platformers, plus a few 32-bit fighters. It sounds like you're thinking of more modern consoles. I had to google Tenchu. I don't think Mame supports any of its platforms. Even if you get the right emulator for it, it doesn't look like a good fit for cabinet play.

[DesiredOutcome]

I'm playing 8-bit and 16-bit shooters and platformers, plus a few 32-bit fighters. It sounds like you're thinking of more modern consoles. I had to google Tenchu. I don't think Mame supports any of its platforms. Even if you get the right emulator for it, it doesn't look like a good fit for cabinet play.

This is so confusing. I got one group telling me i can play nes-psx on a cab provided i program mame or whatever correctly as well as program some pads.  I got others telling me to hack a wii console or make another system to play console games.

[Howard_Casto]

It isn't confusing at all.  Console games are designed to be played sitting back on the couch with a gamepad.  Arcade games are designed purely to steal your quarters as fast as possible and are NOT built for long play.

Is it technically possible to put console games on a mame cab?  Sure.  Should you?  Well the answer for most titles is "probably not". 

I don't mean to offend anyone but those that recommend that you should throw everything on a mame cab and be done with it don't know what they are talking about.  Either they've never tried it, or don't really play games through to the end.  If anyone disagrees feel free to explain to the rest of the class why you are better off playing games like The Legend of Zelda, Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden on a cab. 

What few games work are games that were sequels to arcade ports or are designed in the style of a popular arcade title.  So basically fighting games and beat-em-ups. 

Note that the discussion pretty much ends at the 16 bit era.  Once consoles jumped to 3d, any chance of playing games on a cab went away, except for, again, fighters and beat em ups.  Modern games are analog, while arcade controls are meant to be digital.

[DrakeTungsten]

OP: you're mixing a lot of disparate concepts together. As Howard addressed, there's a question of what is technically possible versus which games are actually an enjoyable experience on a cabinet, but you're also talking about what hardware MAME emulates, as though MAME is the only emulator out there, and then you're talking about control panels and game pads, and you sound like you think you're asking just one question. Maybe you don't have the terminology straight yet, but regardless, you can get more help if you ask clearer questions.

[Titchgamer]

I'm playing 8-bit and 16-bit shooters and platformers, plus a few 32-bit fighters. It sounds like you're thinking of more modern consoles. I had to google Tenchu. I don't think Mame supports any of its platforms. Even if you get the right emulator for it, it doesn't look like a good fit for cabinet play.

This is so confusing. I got one group telling me i can play nes-psx on a cab provided i program mame or whatever correctly as well as program some pads.  I got others telling me to hack a wii console or make another system to play console games.

As the others have said this is not complex you just are not thinking it through.

Question 1) Can you play NES games on a cab?

Answer: Yes. There are various emulators out there that will allow you to play pretty much every old consoles games on a PC/MAME cab.

Question 2) Can you physically play PSX games on a cab?

Answer: Most of them No.

You have to remember a PSX controller was designed to have 2 analogue thumb sticks and 8 play buttons plus start and select.

Some games only use 1 stick and a few buttons so these could be played with a arcade control panel.

But many games used both sticks for movement and vision, plus they operate on a more you push the faster you go basis.
Where most cab sticks are on or off.

Also unless you have huge hands you cant control 2 sticks and 8 buttons with 2 hands!

As for the NES yeah sure you can play pretty much any NES game with a arcade CP.

[Howard_Casto]

OP: you're mixing a lot of disparate concepts together. As Howard addressed, there's a question of what is technically possible versus which games are actually an enjoyable experience on a cabinet, but you're also talking about what hardware MAME emulates, as though MAME is the only emulator out there, and then you're talking about control panels and game pads, and you sound like you think you're asking just one question. Maybe you don't have the terminology straight yet, but regardless, you can get more help if you ask clearer questions.

^THIS^

Perhaps you need to read some of the documentation on this site and try to wrap your head around the concepts you want to know more about.

[DesiredOutcome]

Never mind. Im getting conflicting answers from a plethrora of people.

Maybe my questions werent clear and for that i apologize. My objective was to find out if i can combine arcade gaming and console gaming into one cab (pedestal) the answer to that is evidently no.

My other query was to figure out what i needed in terms of hardware/software to accomplish this without having my cave look like NORAD. ive read that people play console games on computers all the time using game pads all the time and figured if i pack all the emulation i need as well as the select roms and get usb fame pads id be set. Sounds like thats not possible.

[BadMouth]

It's possible, most of the people responding to you just don't recommend it, but they are also under the impression that you want to use the arcade controls to play newer console games which doesn't work well. Pretty much any system that had analog thumb sticks will suck with arcade controls.

Using gamepads in addition to the arcade controls is totally doable, but it sounds like you don't yet have a handle on how all these emulators work.

It's not a case of just downloading a program called MAME and some ROMs, then being able to play. 

It's more like....learn what MAME is and what games it will support, then figure out what other emulators you will need for things MAME doesn't support, then learn about "front ends" which is the program that will allow you to navigate lists and choose games, then learn how to set up each of the emulators in  your chosen front end.

Using gamepads for the console games is just a matter of mapping those emulators to the gamepads instead of the arcade controls.  I'd recommend a keyboard encoder for the arcade controls to avoid controller ID issues.  (Window and MAME like to swap the gamepad IDs around).

[gildahl]

I built my cab for both arcade and classic console gaming.  There are many classic consoles that work perfectly fine.  Early consoles were expressly designed to "bring the arcade experience home", so they are very well suited.  As you move toward more modern consoles, the suitability starts to drop following the SNES/Genesis period,  However, there are still quite a few games for N64, Dreamcast, and even PS1 that can be made to play nicely on the cabinet.  But PS1 is where I draw the line for the reasons others state in this thread.

Here's a list of consoles having games that work well on an arcade machine (maybe not all supported by mame though).  I use a white-list policy, meaning that I only list games that are (a) arcade like and (b) work well with my controls.
 
Fairchild Channel F
Ballly Professional Arcade
Emerson Arcadia 2000
Atari 2600
Odyssey 2
Intellivision
Colecovision
Atar 7800
Atari 800/5200
Sega Master System
NES
SNES
Sega Genesis
Sega Saturn
3DO
N64
Sega Dreamcast
PS1

[thomas_surles]

Sounds like some might be missing the question. What you need is an individual emulator for each console. Mame(arcade) snes9x (super Nintendo) nestoptia  (nes) ect..
Then you need a front end to pack other all on to one place. Hyperopia, Mala, maximus arcade, ect...
Setup each emulator individually then setup the front end.

[Haze]

MAME does most of the 8-bit and 16-bit consoles to varying degrees of accuracy, in many cases perfectly acceptable.  That is, if you're actually using MAME (not some hacked up clone build) and actually using something semi-recent (newer than May 2015)

It's actually kinda funny reading through this thread, because yeah, while a lot of console games DON'T lend their control schemes well to an arcade, there are probably actually more good console games that do than good arcade games, simply due to the sheer number available.

Obviously the key thing is genre.  Fighters, puzzle games, shmups, platformers etc. are for the most part going to play just fine, likewise games released for systems like the A2600 which had a similar level of dumb simplicity to their gameplay meaning they work as pick-up and play arcade style games.

There are even plenty of games for the 8-bit home computers that are fine if you automate the loading, the only times you have to be careful with them is high scores etc. as many expect you to enter initials with a keyboard, which obviously doesn't map well, but still, you can put together a good collection that don't; something like Manic Miner still plays just as well as an arcade game.

Even PSX era, there are games that didn't use the analog sticks (remember, the original model didn't even have them!) and don't even make use of the shoulder buttons.

Also, if you think about it, while nobody in their right mind is going to tell you it's a better game, something like the Genesis version of OutRun is actually more suited to a standard upright arcade cabinet with stick+buttons than the arcade version because the port was designed from the ground up for digital controls, whereas the arcade was meant to use a wheel, so unless you have one, won't play as it should.

[DesiredOutcome]

Sounds like some might be missing the question. What you need is an individual emulator for each console. Mame(arcade) snes9x (super Nintendo) nestoptia  (nes) ect..
Then you need a front end to pack other all on to one place. Hyperopia, Mala, maximus arcade, ect...
Setup each emulator individually then setup the front end.

My front end will be launchbox. This answered a core question. I wasnt sure if mame incorporated emulation additions or if it was simply a stand alone for arcade. I know better now. As soon as i aquire a computer ill start uploading and getting handsy with the programs.

[DesiredOutcome]

Using gamepads for the console games is just a matter of mapping those emulators to the gamepads instead of the arcade controls.  I'd recommend a keyboard encoder for the arcade controls to avoid controller ID issues.  (Window and MAME like to swap the gamepad IDs around).

Is there a particular encoder you recommend?

Could i also have a usb hub install for mutliple controllers? Would the hub connect to the encoder or computer?

[Howard_Casto]

Also, if you think about it, while nobody in their right mind is going to tell you it's a better game, something like the Genesis version of OutRun is actually more suited to a standard upright arcade cabinet with stick+buttons than the arcade version because the port was designed from the ground up for digital controls, whereas the arcade was meant to use a wheel, so unless you have one, won't play as it should.

And see that is the wrong mindset right there.  Since the only thing available would be a vastly inferior port, the solution is to not play outrun.   Either do it right, or don't do it.

[Titchgamer]

Using gamepads for the console games is just a matter of mapping those emulators to the gamepads instead of the arcade controls.  I'd recommend a keyboard encoder for the arcade controls to avoid controller ID issues.  (Window and MAME like to swap the gamepad IDs around).

Is there a particular encoder you recommend?

Could i also have a usb hub install for mutliple controllers? Would the hub connect to the encoder or computer?

I always recommend Ultimarcs controllers, Rather fond of the mini pac personally.

And yes you can have a hub with controllers plugged in, you may have controller ID issues but that is fixable.

[DrakeTungsten]

Just to extend a tangent here, I have found that older home computer games prompting you for name/initials to not be a problem. Usually such games don't require more than two buttons for play, so I remapped other non-gameplay buttons to letters which can be entered for such prompts. I think I only did this for one game - Overkill on the Amiga. I have six buttons on my CP, and the bottom row, for this game, is for gameplay, and the top row of three neatly maps to the three letters for my initials.

[BadMouth]

Using gamepads for the console games is just a matter of mapping those emulators to the gamepads instead of the arcade controls.  I'd recommend a keyboard encoder for the arcade controls to avoid controller ID issues.  (Window and MAME like to swap the gamepad IDs around).

Is there a particular encoder you recommend?

Could i also have a usb hub install for mutliple controllers? Would the hub connect to the encoder or computer?

I recommend the ipac from Ultimarc because it is reprogrammable.  (the first thing I do is change the first few keys on play 1's side from the MAME default of CTRL, ALT, SPACE to regular letter keys.  It just saves hassles down the road with windows hotkeys and other emulators that can't use those keys).

If you'd rather deal with a US seller, I 've bought more Key Wiz's from GroovyGameGear than anything else.  It's technically reprogrammable, but does not save the programming in memory.  It uses an uploader program that must launch every time the computer starts and a lot of people have had issues with it.  So I'd recommend just using it as-is and using different inputs on it for those buttons and leaving the keys like ALT unused or use them for stuff like coin which isn't likely to be pressed in combination with other keys.

Focus Attack is also good to deal with and stocks some of the ultimarc stuff.

A hub will work fine, but I avoid them.  Just one more component to troubleshoot when things don't work.
If you're thinking about having hubs with different controllers for each system, you're in for a world of headaches.
Windows and the emulators will not be able to keep them straight.  (you'll map the Nintendo controller, then the next time you start the computer windows will have assigned some other controller that number)

Just pick two controllers that work for everything, leave them plugged in all the time and use them for everything.
(xbox360 or ps4 style)

[Haze]

Also, if you think about it, while nobody in their right mind is going to tell you it's a better game, something like the Genesis version of OutRun is actually more suited to a standard upright arcade cabinet with stick+buttons than the arcade version because the port was designed from the ground up for digital controls, whereas the arcade was meant to use a wheel, so unless you have one, won't play as it should.

And see that is the wrong mindset right there.  Since the only thing available would be a vastly inferior port, the solution is to not play outrun.   Either do it right, or don't do it.

Well it's still enjoyable.  Oddly Sega chose the Master System version to use on Megatech rather than the Genesis one tho.

People are doing worse things, like using old versions of MAME with terrible emulation of the games in the first place.