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Outsourced Artwork through Elance
Slugworth:
--- Quote from: yotsuya on September 19, 2014, 10:33:19 am ---
--- Quote from: Malenko on September 19, 2014, 09:42:04 am ---
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 08:23:29 am ---Good to know. Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it. Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?
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Let me highlight a few differences:
When I recreated the NHL Open Ice marquee based on the original and put it up for people to use, I didnt make any money based on someone elses work. The art was created for restoration and customization purposes. AFAIK , its totes legal.
When you hired a guy to steal someone else's art and edit it to your liking, he made money on it which is at minimum a legal grey area. If you took the guys art and resized it and redid it for your cab; that's totally different. So you are not comparing apples to apples. Absolute worst case, you should email the artist and ask him for permission, and stress its for personal use. You'd be surprised how flexible people can be if you politely ask.
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Yeah, that's really the big difference here. I'm sure all of us at some time have taken elements from the web for our cab graphics, or used them in the front end, or whatnot. It's when you bring into account charging people for other's artwork that it starts to get sketchy. I'm curious, Slugworth, did you provide the graphics to the Photoshopper, or did he go out and get them for you? Again, not judging you, just curious about the process.
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We did both. I sent a few of the pictures I liked (including the black dragon one you found the original for) and said something to the effect of "these are some pictures I like, but I have a hard time imagining how everything would come together, so feel free to use these or find similar stuff.... warriors, dragons, mages, etc that fit the theme".
She ultimately used the black dragon one (I'm using that for the marquee, which is why it had to be stretched a bit... i told her 23 x 5), and then found the source for the side art and the control panel on her own. She'd send me a .jpeg of what she came up with, and I'd provide feedback and tell her what adjustments to make (more color, different size, move the image out of the button holes, etc).
From my point of view it really was paying someone to use photoshop for me, since it's an expensive program that takes a LOT of time to master. If I had the skills I'd have done it myself. There was never any impression given that she was the artist, just that she had the program and the required training to do the work that I couldn't do for myself.
Vigo:
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 10:41:48 am ---But if you have photoshop, you can now alter anyone's work (like your NHL Open Ice cab) as long as it's for personal use?
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No, see my post above, something altered enough becomes a new piece and legal. Other restoration reasons come into play as well in certain situations.
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 10:41:48 am ---Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction? I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.
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A couple points there. 1, It doesn't take hours to crop and fine tune an image. 2, if you are looking at the legality issue, you cannot say you are exclusively paying the person for manipulation. That is like paying someone to smuggle cocaine across the border, and saying it is not illegal because you only payed for a shipping service.
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 10:41:48 am ---So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck?
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Actually, most people here with photoshop will be happy to put a piece of premade art into a control panel size for you for free. We honestly leave it to you to make the decision about the legal or moral implications. The thing that is rubbing people the wrong way is that many people who use these services like elance either expect they have a legal right to use the art, that the art they paid for actually took effort and time, or that they are getting something original. Also, many photoshoppers cover up what they are doing under the mask that they made original art. It is good that this person was honest with you that they simply cropped a photo, but about 90% of the people who come here showing off "custom art" they paid for were scammed by a photoshopper.
Vigo:
Here is a good thread to read where someone was recently scammed on elance. I think it is a good example of why many of us are quick to be upset with elance.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140416
I think it is totally fine that you know what you paid for and are happy with it. Sounds like a good scenario. As long as you are comfortable with the legality situation, then I am happy you are satisfied with the outcome. :cheers:
Slugworth:
For those curious, this was my project description:
So I'm building a arcade machine to put in my living room (or in my garage if my wife doesn't like how it looks) and I need some help jazzing it up.
Ultimately, I need a photoshop file (.psd) and a picture file (.tif) in 'real size' so I can print it off on vinyl and put on my arcade. I need 3 pieces of work:
Marquee (goes across the top of the machine and is backlit): 23" x 5"
Control Panel (this will have the buttons / joysticks in it): 35" x 15"
Side Art (2 identical pieces.. one for each side): 12" diameter circle
I've looked through some pictures online and am thinking of going with a D&D theme, but I'm not married to any one picture in particular. Nothing too dark or satanic / evil... but I like Dragons, Fantasy themed creates, etc (see attached pictures for examples). You're free to fit these pictures into the required dimensions or come up with something on your own that fits the theme.
I'll also need professional advice on what color joysticks, buttons, and t-molding to hook the arcade up with to blend it all together.
I've also included a picture of my "model cabinet" that I will be trying to mimic as I build my own, as well as a .psd of the control panel template I am using (though my dimensions are slightly different... placement of the buttons should be the same).
Hope that's enough info. Since this is a hobby and my wife can't quite understand why I need to spend any sort of money to basically play Pac-Man, I've gotta keep this cheap.
END ADD:
Anyways, this has been interesting for me to see all the different viewpoints. I would have thought hiring some help to do something I'm unable to do myself (simply resizing and cropping photos) would have been a no brainer, but it appears to be a hot button issue for a lot of folks here, which is odd because from the posts I've read very few bat an eye at downloading thousands of ROMs and Emulators.
yotsuya:
Posts like these are why I have a mancrush on Vigo.
--- Quote from: Vigo on September 19, 2014, 10:57:35 am ---
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 10:41:48 am ---Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction? I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.
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A couple points there. 1, It doesn't take hours to crop and fine tune an image. 2, if you are looking at the legality issue, you cannot say you are exclusively paying the person for manipulation. That is like paying someone to smuggle cocaine across the border, and saying it is not illegal because you only payed for a shipping service.
--- End quote ---
Those of you who love using analogies, take note: this is what a GOOD one looks like. :cheers:
--- Quote from: Slugworth on September 19, 2014, 10:41:48 am ---So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Actually, most people here with photoshop will be happy to put a piece of premade art into a control panel size for you for free. We honestly leave it to you to make the decision about the legal or moral implications. The thing that is rubbing people the wrong way is that many people who use these services like elance either expect they have a legal right to use the art, that the art they paid for actually took effort and time, or that they are getting something original. Also, many photoshoppers cover up what they are doing under the mask that they made original art. It is good that this person was honest with you that they simply cropped a photo, but about 90% of the people who come here showing off "custom art" they paid for were scammed by a photoshopper.
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This is what guys like Mikonos used to do (or still does, for all we now). I mean, if THEY can use Google to get the art, it's not like ANYONE else can't (which was part of the reason why I went to find those two images. 5 minutes and I had them both. Another 5 and I could have recreated the CP and the Marquee, with adjusted proportions - I don't like squished! >:D )
And honestly, I don't care if the OP is bothered about the legality of the artwork. He knowingly paid for Photoshop manipulation, it's his cab, haggle gaggle. But I think that future builders reading posts like this should know exactly what they are getting into when it comes to artwork.
And the issue so much isn't the use of copyrighted art, it's the comments that dismissed "real artists" that was the initial hot button issue. And you keep mentioning emulators and games, but no one is paying for ROMS. Apples and oranges.
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