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aimtrak guns installed, nearly satisfied with the results.

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dkersten:
Just an update, I haven't done much since my last post, but I DID try my calibration idea and it makes a big difference in some games.

I fired up area 51, then marked where the sides of the game are on the screen.  Then I went back to windows and ran the calibration for each gun, but instead of hitting the corners, I used those marks to determine where the corners of the game screen are and just guessed at where the mouse cursor would be if those marks were the edges of the screen (roughly 3/4" toward the center of the screen from the marks and about 3/4" down from the top) and fired.  The bottom calibration point I just hit the cursor.

This way when I was aiming at the far corner of the screen in windows, the mouse cursor was right on the marks I made.  I launched the game and turned on the crosshair and tried it out, and sure enough, not only was the crosshair pretty much dead on with the gun sites in all 4 corners of the game screen, but after a quick calibration in the service menu, the aim and the crosshairs were pretty much dead on for where the shot went.

Now, if I moved 5 inches back, it was off by roughly 2 inches, so I pretty much had to stand exactly where I was when I calibrated, but the aim stayed consistent and the game was better to play.

Unfortunately, launching into a game that took the full screen was far harder to play now, but I knew that would happen.

Next time I get a chance I am gonna put both guns on the internal USB's and see if gun 2 still glitches.

Keep in mind, MOST games work pretty good with the mame crosshairs and not bothering to aim.  It only takes a moment to get a feel for where the crosshair is going to be before you get used to it, and in those cases the games are plenty fun.  It's the games that have their own calibration that are taking inputs based on that rather than where windows sees the gun pointing that really suck because mame puts a crosshair up based on windows, not on what the game sees, so in some games if the aim is off, the crosshair is WAY off. 

Oh, and I tried to do the aimtrak calibration while in a game but you can't see the mouse, so the calibration is running but you don't know where your target is or if it registered when you fired.  So that was a bust.

SpatzST:
The way I calibrate, open up a game that has visible crosshairs in the test menu. With those visible xhairs hold down fire and enable the calibration. The cursor will go to the top of the 4:3 screen now and you will be calibrated for all 4:3 games now.  I guess its the same result as what you did, but maybe better? I'm not sure.

AndyWarne:
I would like to be able to help with the various issues which are mentioned here but the whole thread is rather confusing so I will just make some specific recommendations.

The first issue is Mame has a problem with gun IDs swapping over. This is usually overcome by using the "controller remap utility" which can be found on a search here.

The checks on installation mentioned in the instructions on our website Aimtrak pages must be done, which involves firstly making sure the gun does NOT track when the IR bar is unplugged (ie no extraneous IR light source) and also checking the "sensor view" to make sure the range is fully covering the screen area.

Some games exhibit slow light gun response owing to the implementation in the original game. Nothing can be done about this.

There is no interaction between one gun and the other gun as far as calibration goes. If the second gun wont calibrate properly and does not perform properly and the first does, there is a problem with it and we need to be notified.

If the picture is not fitting the screen the gun will not be accurate and needs to be calibrated against the actual picture size rather then the screen. The calibration steps show a cursor which needs to be aimed-at at each step but if the game only uses part of the screen this wont work properly. The gun assumes the game uses all of the Windows desktop screen. So it will need to be intentionally mis-calibrated to work with these games, and this is not a supported method of operation.

The calibration points indicated by the cursor are not actually at the screen corners, but slightly inward from the corners. This is to cater for CRTs with overscan. So, be aware that during calibration the gun needs to be pointed at the cursor location not the screen edge otherwise it will be innaccurate.

On various threads there has been mentions of using alternative LED light sources rather than the supplied bar. This will not work. It might work for the Wii but will not work for these guns as there are important differences which enable the guns to be used closer to the screen than the Wii controller.

dkersten:

--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---I would like to be able to help with the various issues which are mentioned here but the whole thread is rather confusing so I will just make some specific recommendations.
--- End quote ---
Sorry for the confusion, I tend to write things out to help me figure them out, and I don't like going back to edit posts with updates because it makes subsequent posts confusing to anyone reading the thread from the beginning at a later date.  I will address each point individually in hopes of clearing things up and giving you an idea of where things stand at the moment.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---The first issue is Mame has a problem with gun IDs swapping over. This is usually overcome by using the "controller remap utility" which can be found on a search here.
--- End quote ---
I will see if I can find it.  It would be nice to be able to put the guns away when not in use and be able to plug them in without having to remap the controls in mame each time.  As it sits now, it is a 50/50 chance that if one gun gets unplugged I will have to remap it, even if I plug them both in in order each time.  It would be nice if the ID of the gun forced it to always be GUN5 for ID1 and GUN6 for ID2.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---The checks on installation mentioned in the instructions on our website Aimtrak pages must be done, which involves firstly making sure the gun does NOT track when the IR bar is unplugged (ie no extraneous IR light source) and also checking the "sensor view" to make sure the range is fully covering the screen area.
--- End quote ---
While I have IR interference when pointing at windows around the room, I checked this thoroughly and while pointing at the screen or even within about 10 inches around it I get zero interference even during the day.  At night, pretty much none anywhere around the room except when I point at a glass surface at an angle that is reflective of the IR bar.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---Some games exhibit slow light gun response owing to the implementation in the original game. Nothing can be done about this.
--- End quote ---
Personally I have not experienced this.  All my issues have either been glitches or calibration issues.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---There is no interaction between one gun and the other gun as far as calibration goes. If the second gun wont calibrate properly and does not perform properly and the first does, there is a problem with it and we need to be notified.
--- End quote ---
The guns don't interfere with each other, but when playing with both guns simultaneously, the P2 gun frequently stops working and exhibits odd behavior.  I have swapped the guns so that the P2 gun is in the P1 position and has an ID of 1, and it works like it should, but the one that was ID1 before is now exhibiting the same issues during a 2 player game.  It isn't the gun, it is something to do with having both guns playing simultaneously, and some others seem to be having the same issues.

Here is the thing though: I added a small powered usb hub when I added the guns.  At first the two guns, the IR bar, and the ipac ultimate were all plugged into this.  I had MAJOR issues.  It was like someone was randomly hitting keys, clicking mice, and moving the mouse around, even when I was out of the room!  Half my games on my gamelist got randomly deleted, icons on my desktop got moved around, and even the task manager in windows was launched while I was out of the room once.  Most annoyingly while this was happening was that when I exited a game, Mala would lose focus and there was a "right click" on the lower left corner of the desktop that brought up a menu that wouldn't go away until I minimized Mala and then clicked on the screen with the mouse.  This was solved when I moved the ipac ultimate OFF the hub and back onto an internal port on the PC.  Those problems, which were very frequent, went away instantly.  However, when using the second gun and experiencing the odd behavior, I ALSO lose focus on Mala when exiting, and have the right click menu stuck on the screen. 

My guess at this point is that he hub, although powered, is either not enough power for the guns to run simultaneously, or the hub itself has issues when running multiple HID devices simultaneously.  My next step will be to eliminate the hub, but that won't be easy because I have 9 devices and 8 ports in my PC.  I am planning to put my keyboard, mouse, and wifi adapter on the hub and all the game related controllers directly plugged to the PC.  If I still have problems with the second gun at that point, I will let you know because I will be out of options. 

There is no question though that the gun is NOT faulty at this point, the problem follows the ID of the gun or the USB port, NOT the gun itself.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---If the picture is not fitting the screen the gun will not be accurate and needs to be calibrated against the actual picture size rather then the screen. The calibration steps show a cursor which needs to be aimed-at at each step but if the game only uses part of the screen this wont work properly. The gun assumes the game uses all of the Windows desktop screen. So it will need to be intentionally mis-calibrated to work with these games, and this is not a supported method of operation.
--- End quote ---
This is what I figured out, and my solution in the post above seemed to work great.  HOWEVER, this is not a great overall solution, just like having to manually program the U360's for each game wouldn't be a good solution.  I play fullscreen games too, and having a way to load different calibration profiles would be a good fix here, I can do that with my front end (or with autohotkey or whatever) if it existed.  Also having a 4:3 calibration routine would be cool as well, but marking where the sides of the game screen are and using that as a reference to calibrate does work.


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---The calibration points indicated by the cursor are not actually at the screen corners, but slightly inward from the corners. This is to cater for CRTs with overscan. So, be aware that during calibration the gun needs to be pointed at the cursor location not the screen edge otherwise it will be innaccurate.
--- End quote ---
I accounted for this when doing my makeshift calibration.  I aimed about 3/4" inward, and 3/4" down for each of the corners. 


--- Quote from: AndyWarne on July 25, 2014, 12:03:22 pm ---On various threads there has been mentions of using alternative LED light sources rather than the supplied bar. This will not work. It might work for the Wii but will not work for these guns as there are important differences which enable the guns to be used closer to the screen than the Wii controller.

--- End quote ---

That is a bummer.  I feel like the biggest downside to this setup is how sensitive it is to distance from the screens.  I can get it calibrated pretty much dead on at about 5 feet from the IR bar, but moving back 3 inches sets it off by over an inch already.  Moving to each side has similar consequences.  I would think that having two or three IR sources at the corners of the screen with an algorithm that adjusts the calibration based on the distance the gun sees the corners from each other to allow for moving your initial position would be ideal, but at this price point it is probably a pipe dream.  The solution I have come up with is to only play games where the mame crosshair is exactly where the gun shoots and then just shoot from the hip rather than try to aim. 

Finally, I want to point out that these are the best guns available for the arcade games most of us play.  While I was disappointed in the beginning, as I worked through issues I began to understand the challenge of making a "universal" light gun, and I am far more satisfied with the product now that I have some of the challenges worked out.   I also commend you on your support, which is always prompt.  I would still love to see some improvements made in the product, such as being able to buy them with the recoil already installed, wired, and with a power supply included, and a way to select and load your calibration based on the game screen you will be playing on, but I also want my cake and to eat it too... :cheers:

pbj:
At the end of the day - IR guns don't work very well for arcade games.  You're better off playing Wii games, which have been tweaked to play better with the technology.

If you insist making a cabinet and using IR guns, I think you're better off getting an EMS TopGun - that way you've only got buyer's remorse over $60.  If you put a wide angle lens ($1) on them, they work pretty well from about 5-6 feet away.  Unfortunately, most of us are shoving these things into 10x10 spare bedrooms and that much floorspace can be hard to find.


 

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