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Curved vs Straight button layout.....let's settle this with a poll.

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UFO:

--- Quote from: paigeoliver on August 23, 2013, 03:03:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: BadMouth on August 22, 2013, 09:40:09 am ---Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

--- End quote ---

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

--- End quote ---

I'm sticking my neck out and risking it get cut here, but I only agree partly.

This hobby can be split into several threads:


* Restorations
* Scratch original builds
* Build your own
'Restorations' and 'scratch builds' speak for themselves, but the 'build your own' category is an eclectic collection of peoples own needs and wants.

I am a traditionalist and love the old arcade cab look - I was 15 in 1985 and the cabs at the time are the ones I played and fell in love with. However, I just don't have the space for a full size replica cab or I would build one, therefore it suits my needs to build a 3/4 sized one.

Bartops fall into the same issue. Many people just don't have the space, or maybe want something more portable.

In most peoples "Project Announcement", they are usually clear about the reasons for their build / size and style (good or bad).

The problem arises when someone tries to build an all singing all dancing cab with every innovation / technique ever used. Putting anything and everything - without and real concern about direction - often ends up with a bit of a mess.

The other issue is that "classic" may mean one thing to someone my age, but to someone 20 years my junior doesn't have the same meaning. Design has moved on and people want a different look to their designs.

It would be a shame to miss out on new design and innovation such as is on OND's cab, and I for one think its a good thing.

I agree that the button issue has been done to death though, and we should move on!  :)

DaveMMR:
What I find the most comical is that this topic stirs such heated debate. I think it's the silliest thing to focus on when designing your CP. Are people spending so much time on their cab that they're in danger of crippling their hands due to a straight layout? I'd be worried about a comfortable stool first in that case.

My theory is this: If you have to ask which layout is better - straight or curved - then it likely doesn't matter beyond aesthetics. If you're playing fighters on a professional level, you already know EXACTLY how you like your buttons and do not need validation from your peers much in the same way a professional bowler doesn't ask other bowlers how he should have his ball drilled. You're not going to miraculously become a better player if you curve your buttons or vice versa.

I know paigeoliver is more on the 'purist' side of the fence (as am I to a degree) but his points are valid as sometimes these home redesigns hinder actual playability. I don't think it's a bad idea to consider the designs of actual cabinets first (except Virtua Fighter) before tweaking them for multi-game home use.

 

shponglefan:

--- Quote from: paigeoliver on August 23, 2013, 03:03:23 pm ---I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

--- End quote ---

See, the thing which I think some people don't understand is that not everyone is necessarily looking to recreate a 1980's arcade cabinet.  There are these things called innovation and progress, which generally comes when people experiment with ideas to see what works and what doesn't.  The fact there are some who are willing to experiment is a good thing!  Yeah, sometimes the results aren't very good, but a failed experiment is better than no experiments at all.

Now if some people want to stick to reveling in designs from the 80's, that's perfectly fine.  And if some people want to take arcade building into the 21st century, that's fine too.  There's room for both here.

paigeoliver:
I understand that perfectly well. In fact, what most people are building here is a lot closer to mid 90s design.

I also understand that half of those unique designs and experiments are flip over hazards and one day one of them is going to kill someone's kid.

Go look at real cabinets for 25"/27" games, the control panels never stick out more than a few inches past the front of the cabinet. This keeps the cabinets stable and they are essentially impossible to flip over.

Now go look at your average scratchbuild around here. You will often see the edge of the control panel inexplicably come out 3" past the front of the control panel box, which itself is coming out 8" inches past the front of the cabinet, then about a foot further down the cabinet will inexplicably kick in another 10"-12" where an impossible to reach coin door is then placed. The end result can be a cabinet that will flip forward onto the ground if a toddler decides to hang on the edge of the control panel. End result, dead child.

Even without the flip over hazard, aesthetically a lot of custom builds have control panels that don't look like they are part of the machine, they look like they came off of something else entirely.


--- Quote from: shponglefan on August 23, 2013, 10:19:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: paigeoliver on August 23, 2013, 03:03:23 pm ---I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

--- End quote ---

See, the thing which I think some people don't understand is that not everyone is necessarily looking to recreate a 1980's arcade cabinet.  There are these things called innovation and progress, which generally comes when people experiment with ideas to see what works and what doesn't.  The fact there are some who are willing to experiment is a good thing!  Yeah, sometimes the results aren't very good, but a failed experiment is better than no experiments at all.

Now if some people want to stick to reveling in designs from the 80's, that's perfectly fine.  And if some people want to take arcade building into the 21st century, that's fine too.  There's room for both here.

--- End quote ---

AGarv:

--- Quote from: paigeoliver on August 23, 2013, 03:03:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: BadMouth on August 22, 2013, 09:40:09 am ---Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

--- End quote ---

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

--- End quote ---

Great post.  As a community we create machines to play games that are usually 10 to 30 years old. We create these machines to capture the feel and ergonomics of the original game. A USB control pad on our PC does not provide that true arcade experience.  So every time we establish a "standard" that deviates substantially from classic arcade machines, it is a head-scratcher.

Something is innovative if it represents an improvement over what came before. If we were all about gaming progress and innovation, we wouldn't spend our gaming time on retro emulators. We would spend our gaming time on titles published in 2013, on a keyboard and mouse - or even iOS type touchscreen games.  I can go out to the app store today and fine a dozen arcade style games that absolutely trash Donkey Kong on graphics, sound, and even (gasp) gameplay.  I still like playing Donkey Kong on a 4-way balltop better than pecking on my phone, though.  The innovative option isn't always preferred to the older option.

IMO part of what drives the "non-authentic standards" is age - a fresh BYOACer entering college now was born in 1995. Someone that age typically does not have much first-hand arcade experiences with retro games, so there is no experience to re-create. no 4-player TMNT memories, no SF2 line in the mall, no Double Dragon with your buddy, none of that.  Authenticity becomes largely irrelevant. This leaves a lot more room for design change.



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