Main > Main Forum

Morality/philosophy - was: Re: Legal Questions: Donating a Cab

(1/5) > >>

Haze:
saint's note - this thread forked from original thread here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133804.0.html



--- Quote from: jdbailey1206 on August 07, 2013, 12:03:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: Malenko on August 07, 2013, 11:46:49 am ---I dont advocate bashing anyones head in, I prefer to educate them. The 60 in 1 boards are illegal because they use unlicensed ROMs and they are based on MAME, just an older version. So in essence they are using roms and mame just on a PC that outputs via JAMMA.

--- End quote ---

I wasn't vilifying you Malenko.  I was disputing the severity of which Haze decided to speak against my response with.  The idea that Robedias has is an excellent one.  I can't read this post without being reminded of the Blues Brothers movie.

--- End quote ---

The severity is due to the number of times I see this suggested.  Every time a conversation where 'what are my legal options' comes up *somebody* starts suggesting the xx-in-1 boards, then another person will jump on that suggestion and say what a good suggestion it is etc.

Every time I read something like that I die a little bit inside.  These things are not a good suggestion, nor a legal one, they're a plague on the industry from some cheap faceless Asian manufacturers looking to make a quick buck and are also being stocked heavily and pushed by god knows how many arcade shops as some kind of value option.  Not only are they illegal but from what I've seen they also use the lowest quality component available.

We did not create MAME to compete against genuine legal options in the arcade market.  I wish people would stop suggesting these as any form of solution for anything other than suitable uses for a landfill.

People sacrificing perfectly good arcade boards / carts / cabinets to do nasty conversions using information they figured out from MAME is just as bad because again it's using MAME as a destructive tool.  The people selling them often don't bother mentioning they're bootlegs either, just "ultra rare", for example the floods of people selling carts of any NeoGeo prototype the week after it gets dumped, or the Gnet hacks, Naomi hacks, Cave PGM board games hacked to be carts..  All of it is destroying perfectly good original material for some quick profit, and it's disgusting behaviour.

So please excuse me if I have little patience for this and other similar things.

ark_ader:
I wouldn't bother listening to Haze.  He means well but mamedevs are hypocrites.  Where do you think they get the roms to work on in the first place? The dumping union?

People who live in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones. ::)

Come on Haze you have been getting some odd ball games working for some time now.  Are you telling me that you bid on ebay for this stuff and dump the roms?  An act which is illegal BTW.  And how do these burners manage to find these rare games to bundle in a torrent?  Do you sell them the boards afterwards?

I asked this question before and the response was strangely quiet.  60in1 boards are illegal.  Full stop.  But I see them for sale at distributors, and last time I was at pbhof ( 7 years ago) there was one in a mspacman cab.  Big deal?  Yep.

Nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore. If they did you would know about it.  I haven't used mame since .84 minus the odd .136 game.  I don't believe in supporting commercial games that are still in the fledgling arcades at $2 a pop.  I would rather wait for the console port.  Which I believe will be the death knell for Mame.  It will still go on fixing the blatent crap which should have been done.

Maybe a truce will be called and eventually Mame will become a commercial entity.


I swear you have this site on RSS.  Its like Dave Foley, rub the lamp and he appears.  :laugh2:

We are only discussing our moral compass.  Which is more important than some abandonware.

Haze:

--- Quote from: ark_ader on August 07, 2013, 01:06:53 pm ---I wouldn't bother listening to Haze.  He means well but mamedevs are hypocrites.  Where do you think they get the roms to work on in the first place? The dumping union?

People who live in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones. ::)

Come on Haze you have been getting some odd ball games working for some time now.  Are you telling me that you bid on ebay for this stuff and dump the roms?  An act which is illegal BTW.  And how do these burners manage to find these rare games to bundle in a torrent?  Do you sell them the boards afterwards?

I asked this question before and the response was strangely quiet.  60in1 boards are illegal.  Full stop.  But I see them for sale at distributors, and last time I was at pbhof ( 7 years ago) there was one in a mspacman cab.  Big deal?  Yep.

Nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore. If they did you would know about it.  I haven't used mame since .84 minus the odd .136 game.  I don't believe in supporting commercial games that are still in the fledgling arcades at $2 a pop.  I would rather wait for the console port.  Which I believe will be the death knell for Mame.  It will still go on fixing the blatent crap which should have been done.

Maybe a truce will be called and eventually Mame will become a commercial entity.


I swear you have this site on RSS.  Its like Dave Foley, rub the lamp and he appears.  :laugh2:

We are only discussing our moral compass.  Which is more important than some abandonware.

--- End quote ---

Not really the point of the discussion, but it's all about intent.

Why are Mamedev emulating games? Not to make a profit, not to scam people, not to pass them off as the original somehow, but to document things and ensure 20-30 years from now these things are still in some way accessible and can be understood by everybody INCLUDING the original creators of the games.  I've said before, why isn't Raiden 2 in any of the new (licensed) Raiden re-releases, simple answer is because *we* haven't figured it out and the company who made it don't have a clue how it works therefore can't make legitimate profit from their own IP!.  MAME is a genuine project for the benefit of everybody and has an actual value to the industry even if it can never be officially stated.  I absolutely guarantee you that after we emulate it the next official licensed compilation will magically have support for it because we've rediscovered how it worked for them.

That's very different to people who see MAME as an opportunity to make a quick buck, short term profit at whatever cost to the industry competing directly against arcade games in their own market.

So I wouldn't say it was hypocritical that these things annoy me, and that I *will* step in to any conversation about them and tell people that, especially if idiots are going to recommend them.

ark_ader:

--- Quote from: Haze on August 07, 2013, 01:36:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: ark_ader on August 07, 2013, 01:06:53 pm ---I wouldn't bother listening to Haze.  He means well but mamedevs are hypocrites.  Where do you think they get the roms to work on in the first place? The dumping union?

People who live in greenhouses shouldn't throw stones. ::)

Come on Haze you have been getting some odd ball games working for some time now.  Are you telling me that you bid on ebay for this stuff and dump the roms?  An act which is illegal BTW.  And how do these burners manage to find these rare games to bundle in a torrent?  Do you sell them the boards afterwards?

I asked this question before and the response was strangely quiet.  60in1 boards are illegal.  Full stop.  But I see them for sale at distributors, and last time I was at pbhof ( 7 years ago) there was one in a mspacman cab.  Big deal?  Yep.

Nobody gives a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- anymore. If they did you would know about it.  I haven't used mame since .84 minus the odd .136 game.  I don't believe in supporting commercial games that are still in the fledgling arcades at $2 a pop.  I would rather wait for the console port.  Which I believe will be the death knell for Mame.  It will still go on fixing the blatent crap which should have been done.

Maybe a truce will be called and eventually Mame will become a commercial entity.


I swear you have this site on RSS.  Its like Dave Foley, rub the lamp and he appears.  :laugh2:

We are only discussing our moral compass.  Which is more important than some abandonware.

--- End quote ---

Not really the point of the discussion, but it's all about intent.

Why are Mamedev emulating games? Not to make a profit, not to scam people, not to pass them off as the original somehow, but to document things and ensure 20-30 years from now these things are still in some way accessible and can be understood by everybody INCLUDING the original creators of the games.  I've said before, why isn't Raiden 2 in any of the new (licensed) Raiden re-releases, simple answer is because *we* haven't figured it out and the company who made it don't have a clue how it works therefore can't make legitimate profit from their own IP!.  MAME is a genuine project for the benefit of everybody and has an actual value to the industry even if it can never be officially stated.  I absolutely guarantee you that after we emulate it the next official licensed compilation will magically have support for it because we've rediscovered how it worked for them.

That's very different to people who see MAME as an opportunity to make a quick buck, short term profit at whatever cost to the industry competing directly against arcade games in their own market.

So I wouldn't say it was hypocritical that these things annoy me, and that I *will* step in to any conversation about them and tell people that, especially if idiots are going to recommend them.


--- End quote ---


But you ducked those dumping questions though.... :laugh2:

You guys are a laugh a minute.  Your site says the copyright is owned by....well you don't know do you as there are literally hundreds of active coders internationally, most of the grunt work was done on your watch.  Who's to say some nintendoh techs submitted code on their days off?  Sega too?  And you guys like the attention.  ---steaming pile of meadow muffin---, who doesn't know what mame is?


Give me a break.  Now all you do is post trolling comments (which I believe is very accurate) on your site.  Nothing wrong about it.  Just please do not come on this site and give us your ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow--- on distributing activities you guys so actively engage in.  I would give you a pass if you are doing work for the library of congress and archiving.  It is so funny. :laugh2:  But you are not doing that are you?  How does these hundreds of international coders get a rare rom code to emulate in the first place?  Please tell us.

Just keep doing what you do best, leave the moral arguments to those more qualified and one day I'm sure you will get the captains chair again.  :cheers:

ark_ader:

--- Quote ---    I've said before, why isn't Raiden 2 in any of the new (licensed) Raiden re-releases, simple answer is because *we* haven't figured it out and the company who made it don't have a clue how it works therefore can't make legitimate profit from their own IP!
--- End quote ---

So the IP owners have contacted the mamedevs to get them to figure out code for a game that is hugely popular as they need it porting to the ps4 this Christmas.   Cool.  How about those indie developers who can code circles around you?

Smells fishy to you?  Well that is how you tried to sell it to me.

So raiden 2 boards are very difficult to find and expensive to keep running?

So how does this emulation gig of yours hurt the resell market of classic arcade boards?  Which is the legit way to own them.... ::)

Off topic but I had to ask as it is vaguely related to the subject.



P.s.
Well it looks like Seibu gave up on you and ported it to the PSX  I think you need to change your example to a mahjong game instead...

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version