Complete Noob Starting to Get Overwhelmed

[PL1]

Is there anything I can do to check that my edge is square before I slot cut?

To check if the edge is square to the face of the piece, push an L-square flat against the edge and look for a gap.


Scott

[mcseforsale]

This brings up a problem with cutting with jig-saws.  It's very difficult to get a good square cut with one.  But the t-molding will compensate for a bit of difference.

AJ

Is there anything I can do to check that my edge is square before I slot cut?

To check if the edge is square to the face of the piece, push an L-square flat against the edge and look for a gap.


Scott

[spratkobasa]

PL1 that is the technique I was using thus far.  But when trying to fix some of these issues with a sanding block I can't get it perfectly flush as the edge is only 3/4 inches.  How did you fix it on yours?

AJ how much wiggle room do you think I have as a rule of thumb?

[mcseforsale]

Probably 1/16" or so...maybe a scosh more.  After you cut the slot, you basically  whack the t-molding in with a rubber hammer and as the spine gets captured in the slot, the t-molding flattens to the edge.  You can also mask a lot of issues by painting the cut edges the same as your t-molding.

AJ

PL1 that is the technique I was using thus far.  But when trying to fix some of these issues with a sanding block I can't get it perfectly flush as the edge is only 3/4 inches.  How did you fix it on yours?

AJ how much wiggle room do you think I have as a rule of thumb?

[PL1]

PL1 that is the technique I was using thus far.  But when trying to fix some of these issues with a sanding block I can't get it perfectly flush as the edge is only 3/4 inches.  How did you fix it on yours?

I get around it on my portable/modular panels by using a table saw (blade checked to be sure it cuts square) with minor adjustments on the short-end cuts using the technique shown and a 6" disc/belt sander.

Many people use a sawboard for their circular saw if a table saw isn't available or if the work piece is too large for a table saw.

For full-size cab sides, I'd recommend:
1. Make a full-size template in 1/2 MDF or plywood. (BONUS: Makes building a second cab easier.)
2. Trace the outline of the template onto 3/4 MDF or plywood.
3. Use jigsaw, drill, and/or circular saw to cut *close* to the outline. (Hopefully less dust in step 4)
4. Clamp the template to the rough-cut side and use a router + flush trim bit to make an exact copy of the template. 
*** Ensure that the router rides flat to keep the sides perpindicular to the face. ***
5. Repeat steps 2-4 for the other side.


Scott

[mcseforsale]

Yeah.  The only real problem I had was with the stuff I couldn't cut with my circular saw, like the inner radii.  And, I wasn't really interested in building several cabs, so I didn't think building a template and storing it would be good since I'd have to move/dent it all the time.

With the barcades I'm about to embark on, that's exactly what I'm going to do...make templates in hardboard.

AJ

PL1 that is the technique I was using thus far.  But when trying to fix some of these issues with a sanding block I can't get it perfectly flush as the edge is only 3/4 inches.  How did you fix it on yours?

I get around it on my portable/modular panels by using a table saw (blade checked to be sure it cuts square) with minor adjustments on the short-end cuts using the technique shown and a 6" disc/belt sander.

Many people use a sawboard for their circular saw if a table saw isn't available or if the work piece is too large for a table saw.

For full-size cab sides, I'd recommend:
1. Make a full-size template in 1/2 MDF or plywood. (BONUS: Makes building a second cab easier.)
2. Trace the outline of the template onto 3/4 MDF or plywood.
3. Use jigsaw, drill, and/or circular saw to cut *close* to the outline. (Hopefully less dust in step 4)
4. Clamp the template to the rough-cut side and use a router + flush trim bit to make an exact copy of the template. 
*** Ensure that the router rides flat to keep the sides perpindicular to the face. ***
5. Repeat steps 2-4 for the other side.


Scott

[PL1]

Yeah.  The only real problem I had was with the stuff I couldn't cut with my circular saw, like the inner radii.

That's what the drill and jigsaw are for.   

Chain-drill close to the line all through the curve and several inches into the straight section on either side.

Cut through the centers of the holes with the jigsaw before you do the circular saw cuts.

Clean the edges up with the router using clamped fences/guides aligned for the straight edges and free-hand the curve or make a fence/guide/partial template for it.


Scott

[spratkobasa]

Hi Guys,

Great success on the Slot cutting.  I got the whole thing slot cut.  On the down side my jigsaw had a mind of its own on a straight piece I was trying to cut for the bottom of my control panel (see below).  This mistake is right where the support wall of the control panel is supposed to be attached.  I have come up with three possible solutions:

1) Fill the mistake with wood glue and have the piece stick nicely to the main body
2) Same as 1) but use wood filler instead. (is this stronger?)
3) cut the piece off and have less support for the wall on it (note a hinge for the top of the control panel which is just under 2 x 4 ft)

What do you guys recommend?

[mcseforsale]

I'd get some quality wood glue (like gorilla) and just drizzle it in that crack and let it set up.  You won't be able to fill it entirely the first pass.  When the glue is set up enough...probably 30 min or more, drizzle more in there.  Just keep doing that until you can wipe the exess of the top with a wet cloth.

Then, use wood putty to fill in the rest.  That'll be stronger than the original wood.

Oh, and for that cut, I'da used a skilsaw and cutting guide.

AJ

[spratkobasa]

Thanks AJ, I have normal LePage wood glue will that work?  Also what is the skilsaw?  Isn't your solution for the that cut that was the only mistake I left the wood there to show what would be resting on the edge of the curved cut out.

[mcseforsale]

Yeah. that glue will work.

Sorry, Skil is a brand....circular saw. 

AJ

Thanks AJ, I have normal LePage wood glue will that work?  Also what is the skilsaw?  Isn't your solution for the that cut that was the only mistake I left the wood there to show what would be resting on the edge of the curved cut out.

[spratkobasa]

Thanks AJ the repair is progressing .  I'm going to start my painting I think I'm just going to pain the visible sides of the panels.  I rubbed it down with a rag several times a couple of hours in between and I oil priming then latex painting.  AJ your method of glue and water makes me nervous I feel I will screw up the panel I spent forever to make by strengthening the edges.  Also I worry that the grove for the T-molding will swell due to the primer and paint.  Do I have to worry about the wood swelling with primer and paint to the degree where the T-molding doesn't fit in the wood anymore?

[kahlid74]

Thanks AJ the repair is progressing .  I'm going to start my painting I think I'm just going to pain the visible sides of the panels.  I rubbed it down with a rag several times a couple of hours in between and I oil priming then latex painting.  AJ your method of glue and water makes me nervous I feel I will screw up the panel I spent forever to make by strengthening the edges.  Also I worry that the grove for the T-molding will swell due to the primer and paint.  Do I have to worry about the wood swelling with primer and paint to the degree where the T-molding doesn't fit in the wood anymore?

They key is to be patient and do several smaller passes.  More often than not you mess it up when you try to force more than it can handle at any given time.  Waiting sucks but if you can stomach it, it'll look pro when you're done.

[mcseforsale]

If it's MDF, it shouldn't swell.  I only do one pass with the foam brush, wiping the edges as I go so that not too much is absorbed.  You really only need it to soak in a little.   It won't swell the t-mold slots because not much is getting in there and you'd be using a de-barbed piece of t-mold to get the excess out of the slot while you're wiping it down.
 

Then, when it's dry, I use some 120 grit or similar to just take the pebbling down. 

AJ

[spratkobasa]

Multi layer approach sounds good kahlid but it is super humid this time of year in Canada.  I might have a couple of days where the humidity dips down to an acceptable level to paint.  AJ I think I'm just going to run my roller with the paint and primer on the edge (what do you guys think?).  Also my primer is an oil primer kiltz and it said if I sand the primer I might get lead poisoning from the dust (thats what  on the can said).  So I'm just going to prime with multiple layers and paint with multiple layers.  I went to home depot and they didn't sell oil paint.  So I got the oil primer and acrylic paint I assume I should be find if I give enough time for the primer to cure.

[kahlid74]

I'm no expert on paints but here's what I know:
OIL Based Primers are rock solid because they dry super fast and are super soaky.  Meaning they soak really well into wood.  The down side is they smell far worse than water based and cleaning them requires mineral spirits which aren't very healthy for you.  As far as the lead is concerned, I hadn't heard that but I would check up on it.

Acrylic paints (technically Latex Paints): clean the easiest (Dish washing soap and warm water) and dry quickly but take a long time to cure.  When I say cure, an acrylic based paint can take 30-60 minutes to become dry to the touch but can take DAYS to fully cure.  If you paint something with a latex based paint and then move it in a day the whole paint coat can slide right off because the under layers aren't yet dry.  So anytime I paint with Latex I usually let said item sit for 5-7 days before re-painting.  They still smell but not nearly as bad as oil based.

My past projects I've used Oil based primer but the pain in the butt/smell is making me want to try a water based primer for this next cab.

Humidity is definitely an issue.  What type of place are you working in?  Basement or garage.  At the end of the day you may have to roll a de-humidifier and do the best you can.

[mcseforsale]

My primer (Killz latex) took over a week to dry in humid weather.  It was a royal pain in the butt because between those days dust/fuzz accumulated on the coat and had to be sanded out every time.

If I ever build another full size cab, it will be with laminate.

AJ

[spratkobasa]

5 to 7 days for layers of paint! yikes!  I hope you are wrong.  My plan was to get the dehumidifier and paint on the weekend when the temp is supposed to drop from 32 to 25 C and do all the layers of paint over the weekend. Prime for wait 3 to 4 hours then prime again on Saturday.  Sunday paint wait 5 hours then paint.  So kahlid that is a recipe for disaster?  My first layer of oil I think took a night to become dry but that was on a 25C down to 16 C night which I had last week and am expecting this weekend.

[spratkobasa]

I noticed when I tried to hammer in some t-molding after the prime that it was messing up the grove.  Also it didn't go in.  I used a roller on the edges.  What do I do?    Should I just re route the grove after I'm done painting?  See a picture below.

[shponglefan]

I would tape over the slot, then paint.  That way paint won't get into the slot.  I wouldn't try to paint then route the slot, because you're liability to mess up the paint job.

[spratkobasa]

But what if I can't get the T-molding in, my mark I made the T-molding didn't even go in and it marked up my edge like you see it in the picture.  I might not have a choice but to route unless you guys have any tricks up your sleeves.

[shponglefan]

I'd re-route the slot now, then cover it with tape and finish your painting.

[spratkobasa]

I will definitely do that shponglefan!  Thanks for your advice

[spratkobasa]

Update guys   I rerouted and I'm all done painting.  Its time for the t-molding, how do I cut the molding so that it is seam less?  Also should I read on the internet that some people heat the molding in the sun to make it easier to install, do you think I should do this?

Also do I need to cut the spine out for the curves or is there a thresold?

Cheers

[mcseforsale]

Warm t-molding is better, but not necessary.  It's pretty flexible.  When going around/inside a corner, you will want to cut 90degree "V"s in the spine in order for it to curve properly.

As far as making it seamless, it's all about where you terminate it.  On my cab, for instance, the seam is at the back of the CP and the t-molding goes all the way around the cab (including the bottom) so the seam is at the bottom where noone will notice.



Use a rubber mallet to install the t-molding.

AJ

Update guys   I rerouted and I'm all done painting.  Its time for the t-molding, how do I cut the molding so that it is seam less?  Also should I read on the internet that some people heat the molding in the sun to make it easier to install, do you think I should do this?

Also do I need to cut the spine out for the curves or is there a thresold?

Cheers

[spratkobasa]

Thanks AJ, I don't understand the V cut.  Do you mean just cut off the spine?  Do you have a picture of the cut?

[mcseforsale]

Yeah, so, you cut the spine ONLY in a "V" pattern.  The missing spine in the empty area of the "V" will allow the t-molding to bend around the corner.  Otherwise, the spine would fold on itself. 

I'll get you some pics when I get home today.

Thanks,
AJ

Thanks AJ, I don't understand the V cut.  Do you mean just cut off the spine?  Do you have a picture of the cut?

[PL1]

Here's a pic of the notch made by the professional installation tool from t-molding.com.



A notch like this will work for inside or outside corners.


Scott

[mcseforsale]

Here's a pic of the notch made by the professional installation tool from t-molding.com.



A notch like this will work for inside or outside corners.


Scott

that ^^  But make sure you make several for each corner as needed.  On some of my corners, such as coming over the top of the marquee area, I have 8 or 9 notches.  although I only use a utility knife to make mine.

AJ

[Rick]

...although I only use a utility knife to make mine.

Source: Nick N. Mathumbs.

[spratkobasa]

Thanks everyone, I finally get some time tonight to take a stab at it

[spratkobasa]

Great success guys!  Those V cuts really helped with the inner corners and everything went in flush after alot of messing around with the stuff.  Nothing seems to go as easily as it seems it should .  Thanks for your tips.

I am coming on to the stage now to glue together all the pieces and I was wondering what order I should glue this beast together.  Should I:

1) Put the arcade on its side and glue it on side ways?
2) Put the floor on first then, the front bottom panel, then control panel, then the top speaker, marque, and last the roof panel?

Which is best to avoid the roof not being square with the ground.  Also which way is most stable?

Thanks

[mcseforsale]

Got any pics of the sides and other panels.  That may make the decision easier.  For both of mine, I did the base first, while temporarily having a large panel in place to keep the thing parallel (on it's side).  Once the base and sides were perfectly square, I installed the largest piece (on my revolution, it was the back panel, on my full-size, it was the angled back piece (between the very top piece and the back).  That way, I had a sizeable piece keeping it square. 

Then, I put it on a level surface standing up and began measuring squaring again.  With the base in place and with a large panel perpendicular to it temporarily in place, you have a lot of ways to square things up before you permanently attach any other panels.  Once I had the sides perfectly square to the base, I installed the next larges panel permanently, shoring up the entire structure. 

I kept installing smaller and smaller panels until the entire thing was square.  Then, I took off the very first, largest panel (back panel for revolution and angled back for my full size) and attached it permanently. 

Just make sure to NOT rely on the floor or any other base for plumb, etc.  Use the actual cab itself.  I know here in Ga., the garage floors are nowhere near level or flat due to the storm regulations in construction, so I had to rely heavily on measurements and various squares.  Here's an excellent way to measure square:

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-the-3-4-5-Rule-to-Build-Square-Corners

AJ

Great success guys!  Those V cuts really helped with the inner corners and everything went in flush after alot of messing around with the stuff.  Nothing seems to go as easily as it seems it should .  Thanks for your tips.

I am coming on to the stage now to glue together all the pieces and I was wondering what order I should glue this beast together.  Should I:

1) Put the arcade on its side and glue it on side ways?
2) Put the floor on first then, the front bottom panel, then control panel, then the top speaker, marque, and last the roof panel?

Which is best to avoid the roof not being square with the ground.  Also which way is most stable?

Thanks

[spratkobasa]

My arcade is huge and can house a 42 inch tv. See attached some pictures of the panels. Hopes this helps in the assessment.

[spratkobasa]

I am using RidicRick's blue prints to make my arcade in the following link to his and his thread with the blue prints:

http://www.hyperspin-fe.com/forum/showthread.php?12476-ArchAngel-Arcade-New-Project!

[spratkobasa]

Hi Everyone,

Big update my cabinet frame is assembled!    Now its time for the moment of truth will it hold my TV (31 lbs) and wall mount (~10-15 lbs).  The wall mount is going to be attached to the back panel of mdf which has been screwed and glued to spruce strips that are screwed and glued to the side panels of the arcade.  Also behind the MDF I am going to screw 2x4's into the spruce strips.  This way the bolts of the mount will go through my MDF and into the 2x4's for additional strength and support.  Do you think my plan makes sense, or is the wood not going to be able to take it.   


Also the red boxes are the 2x4's that are going to go in.  The screws are 2 inch particle board screws and the MDF is 3/4 inch thick.  Wood strips are 24 inchs by 1.5 inches in surface area.  Below is the bolt that will go through the wall mount into the MDF and 2x4 (I will predrill).  Also I marked the height of the tv too. 

[spratkobasa]

Quick update it all worked like a charm. It is super strong for anyone else trying to get a similar setup

[CaptainMarvel]

For full-size cab sides, I'd recommend:
1. Make a full-size template in 1/2 MDF or plywood. (BONUS: Makes building a second cab easier.)
2. Trace the outline of the template onto 3/4 MDF or plywood.
3. Use jigsaw, drill, and/or circular saw to cut *close* to the outline. (Hopefully less dust in step 4)
4. Clamp the template to the rough-cut side and use a router + flush trim bit to make an exact copy of the template. 
*** Ensure that the router rides flat to keep the sides perpindicular to the face. ***
5. Repeat steps 2-4 for the other side.


Scott

Scott  . . . . THANK YOU !!!

This is the very issue I was inquiring about within my question thread at http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134878.new.html#new

This seems like a great way to approach this process - getting the thinner MDF cutout as "perfect" as possible,
and then using THAT as the flush/trim template for the "real" 3/4" MDF panels.