Main > Main Forum

Safe electrics?

<< < (3/4) > >>

lilshawn:

--- Quote from: wcndave on November 11, 2012, 07:23:01 am ---There won't be a switch or fuse on here, its a straight passthrough was my idea.

The lead that plugs into wall will be fused, and the power strip in the cab will be fused + all the plugs in the cab are fused....

I am using all UK electrics.  Here in italy, plugs are not fused and neutral / live are interchangeable... so sticking with what i know (a bit better)

--- End quote ---

LIVE AND NEUTRAL ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I'm atheist and all, but, GOOD LORD don't!

from a safety standpoint you MUST NOT interchange live and neutral. most appliances with a metal box are grounded, those that do not (2 pronged plugs) have the neutral attached to the metal chassis. MIXING THE LIVE AND NEUTRAL PRESENTS AN ELECTROCUTION HAZARD IF YOU TOUCH THE EXPOSED METAL.

yes with AC there is no positive or negative. This is because the power neutral is basically a zero volt reference to the hot wire... you can safely touch a bare neutral wire.  due to the way AC operates it will seem normal and "Okay" but the modified appliance becomes very dangerous should the right circumstances arise.

if your plug coming into the cabinet is wired wrong...EVERYTHING inside the machine with a metal case/frame (monitor/power supply/computer/metal doors/etc) all become an electrocution hazard, because everything inside is now improperly wired.

if nothing else have an electrician do it.

PL1:
Unless you live in an older place in Italy, you should have grounded outlets, assuming that Wikipedia is trustworthy on this one.   That means a 3-contact plug.

To keep from messing things up, you need to wire your whole cab for standard UK wiring including the IEC connector.

Get an IEC cord like this.


Verify which one of the outer contacts of the input cord wall plug connects to your cab's hot and MARK THE WALL PLUG BY THAT CONTACT.

Verify that ground is in the middle.

That leaves neutral on the other side.

Before plugging into an outlet you need to test it to see which side is hot and MARK THE OUTLET BY THAT CONTACT. (Multimeter to VAC, one lead in the center, the other to the outer conductor.)

Always match up the marks before you plug your cab in and you should be fine.   :cheers:


Scott

wcndave:
Thanks for the answers so far, although not sure I really understand them.

We have here 7 different types of plugs / sockets.

2 pin, 3 pin like the picture above, and 2 pin in a circle with two earths.



They then have combinations of wide spaced / narrow spaced, and thick / thin pins, giving a mind boggling combination.



In all cases the plug can be put in either way around, totally unlike UK plugs.

Whenever anyone plugs in a TV, washing machine, computer, fridge or whatever, no regard at all is given to which way around they are.

Plugging in the computer and screen in the cab is just the same as plugging in my home entertainment system i would have thought.  So not quite sure what all this advice really means.

Either every single electrical device here is a deathtrap, with no one ever getting hurt, or the electrical system is somewhat different.

I currently have a UK 4 way strip plugged into the cabinet, that is plugged in to an adaptor and then there are 2 Italian extension cords before the wall.  so the outside pins could be anyway around.

my intent was to solder the 4 way (or a plug as suggested above) onto the connectors of the salvaged IEC connector so I could plug / unplug my cab from the outside.

Given all the above, not quite sure whether that is safe, however can't see how it's any different in terms of what's connected to what than i have now.  or even the TV in my house....


I do appreciate all the help,

Cheers

Dave

lilshawn:
okay, it seems everything there is "double insulated"


copy paste from wikipedia:


--- Quote ---A Class II or double insulated electrical appliance is one which has been designed in such a way that it does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).
The basic requirement is that no single failure can result in dangerous voltage becoming exposed so that it might cause an electric shock and that this is achieved without relying on an earthed metal casing. This is usually achieved at least in part by having two layers of insulating material surrounding live parts or by using reinforced insulation.
In Europe, a double insulated appliance must be labelled Class II, double insulated, or bear the double insulation symbol (a square inside another square).
--- End quote ---

because of the way electricity operates in north america what i mentioned is REQUIRED.

this is due to the fact that we run some appliances on 120 and others on 240 called SPLIT PHASE. we accomplish this by having 2 - 120 volt lines out of phase with each other (by 1/2 cycle). where the difference between the 2 lines at the peak of the voltage cycle is 240 volts. The problem is that one appliance plugged in to one outlet and another plugged into another outlet can be on either one of the 120 phases. appliances on different phases is not a problem except if there is a fault or improper wiring. then things get really dangerous really fast. this is why hot/neutral is so important here.
in Europe i imagine there are some places that do a similar 230/460 type of split phase power system but it would likely be in warehouses or other industrial application.

wcndave:
Ok, thanks.

To be fair, most new appliances here have earth, it's the old houses and cables that often don't, but it is a requirement in all new builds now.

However earth was not the thing people were getting excited about, it was interchanging live / neutral, when all our many types of plugs are symmetrical exactly so this can be achieved.

Sounds like your different phases could be the issue.  I know when wiring up cabinets in my data centre that we should not power equipment in one cab from another cabs supply in case they are supplied with different phases and we get that double voltage issue you mentioned.

I think domestically here/uk it cannot happen.  For larger equipment typically > 5hp you'd use 3phase.  this would require a special circuit installed (expensive), or to use an inverter.  I know only one person who does this in house (well workshop).

So I think in summary I am safe to wire it up almost any old how, but i will keep them aligned to UK standards so at least from the outside of the cab to the equipment the same path is followed.

One final note is that each house here only gets 3kw (not enough for kettle and oven simultaneously), so apparently it's really hard to electrocute yourself properly without capacitors...

never heard of any toaster in the bath stuff here...  >:D

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

Go to full version