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Electronic skin for multi-colored buttons
Yvan256:
--- Quote from: Trip on September 08, 2012, 10:59:27 am ---Making fun of the people's setups that actually like color changing buttons is not the best way to build a customer base. It's actually a pretty stupid strategy.
--- End quote ---
I'm trying to help the community, not make fun of anyone. I'm also not trying to build any customer base. I'm not planning to build any product myself, I'm just trying to see if anyone would be interested in non-lighted, color-changing buttons, trying to figure if such a thing would be possible at all and connecting manufacturers together, like Kent Displays and Ultimarc, for example. Sometimes all the technology is available but the manufacturers aren't even aware of other potential markets. I'm sure the manufacturers of color e-ink displays aren't aware of the potential market for dynamic arcade marquees. In that case, IMHO, resorting to ultra-wide LCD displays is acceptable since marquees were backlit.
Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. We can't have opinions anymore? What about people who have two dozen buttons, five joysticks, a trackball and a spinner on a single control panel? A lot of people make fun of them, yet I'm sure the owners are proud of their accomplishment.
The hard thing about comments on forums is that you don't hear the tone of the comments. I wasn't making fun of anyone nor was I trying to be sarcastic or anything. I just don't like lighted buttons, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You may like lighted buttons and think they're just fine, that's your opinion and you're also entitled to it.
Yvan256:
--- Quote from: Nephasth on September 08, 2012, 11:12:03 am ---Some things to think about:
-You'll need to develop software to change the buttons' colors on a game by game basis. After all, why would you want to use a program like LEDBlinky that's designed to control xmas trees?
-Colors.ini has more than 8 colors, so you'll need to either make a new one or go through and edit the existing one.
-This whole idea sounds extremely cost prohibitive. People don't really enjoy spending $5+ a button, this sounds like it may be $10+ per button.
-What about the rims of the buttons? No color changing love?
-Will each button need it's own PCB (as shown)? Or will you be able to have one control board for all the buttons (lower price perhaps)?
--- End quote ---
First, let me say that I know nothing about things like LEDBlinky, etc. I don't use Windows so there's a lot of options not available as far as emulators go.
LED-lighted buttons already cost more than 5$USD+ per button once you take the controller into account. Maybe not 10$USD but pretty close. If you don't live in the USA, shipping gets expansive pretty fast, then there's the customs charges, etc. It can become a very expensive hobby, to say the least.
The rims should also be able to change color, of course. However, from the emails I've exchanged so far, there seems to be severe limitations on the molding process. I'm not even sure yet if the skin can be molded to the shape of the plunger. Worst case scenario, the skin would be a single flat disc, used as an insert for clear buttons. In the ideal setup the plastic itself would be able to change to multiple colors, but we don't have such technology at the moment. The best I've seen is two-colors plastic, activated by heat, sunlight or electrical current.
As for the controller, I'm also awaiting details about it. Hopefully a single controller will be able to control at least 6~8 buttons.
Trip:
--- Quote from: Yvan256 on September 08, 2012, 11:22:49 am ---
--- Quote from: Trip on September 08, 2012, 10:59:27 am ---Making fun of the people's setups that actually like color changing buttons is not the best way to build a customer base. It's actually a pretty stupid strategy.
--- End quote ---
I'm trying to help the community, not make fun of anyone. I'm also not trying to build any customer base. I'm not planning to build any product myself, I'm just trying to see if anyone would be interested in non-lighted, color-changing buttons, trying to figure if such a thing would be possible at all and connecting manufacturers together, like Kent Displays and Ultimarc, for example. Sometimes all the technology is available but the manufacturers aren't even aware of other potential markets. I'm sure the manufacturers of color e-ink displays aren't aware of the potential market for dynamic arcade marquees. In that case, IMHO, resorting to ultra-wide LCD displays is acceptable since marquees were backlit.
Just because I don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. We can't have opinions anymore? What about people who have two dozen buttons, five joysticks, a trackball and a spinner on a single control panel? A lot of people make fun of them, yet I'm sure the owners are proud of their accomplishment.
The hard thing about comments on forums is that you don't hear the tone of the comments. I wasn't making fun of anyone nor was I trying to be sarcastic or anything. I just don't like lighted buttons, that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You may like lighted buttons and think they're just fine, that's your opinion and you're also entitled to it.
--- End quote ---
Well people like Andy at Ultimarc would like to have a customer base if they are going to sell something like this, pissing off the people who buy things like this is not going to give Andy any incentive to join up with Kent Displays if he can't sell to the people that want this type of product. The people with the flashlights and the people who currently want the flashlights are going to be the market audience for these. The people who don't like color changing buttons aren't going to be interested in color changing no matter what you do with it. So instead of blasting people with flashlights, try saying something positive about your product instead of attacking negatives of other people's products. It will give your idea much more a chance of survival instead of everyone just getting fed up with you and not caring about what you have to offer.
I am interested in your product, but hearing you knock the only option currently on the market that I chose to buy just makes me not want to purchase anything that comes from this... Just my opinion on how you should approach this...
Yvan256:
About my "flashlight" comment, some of the options out there really seem to be way too bright: RGB Pushbutton Showdown.
--- Quote from: Trip on September 08, 2012, 11:41:06 am ---The people who don't like color changing buttons aren't going to be interested in color changing no matter what you do with it.
--- End quote ---
Of course, if someone's not interested in something then they sure won't buy it.
--- Quote from: Trip on September 08, 2012, 11:41:06 am ---Well people like Andy at Ultimarc would like to have a customer base if they are going to sell something like this, pissing off the people who buy things like this is not going to give Andy any incentive to join up with Kent Displays if he can't sell to the people that want this type of product. The people with the flashlights and the people who currently want the flashlights are going to be the market audience for these. [...] So instead of blasting people with flashlights, try saying something positive about your product instead of attacking negatives of other people's products. It will give your idea much more a chance of survival instead of everyone just getting fed up with you and not caring about what you have to offer.
I am interested in your product, but hearing you knock the only option currently on the market that I chose to buy just makes me not want to purchase anything that comes from this... Just my opinion on how you should approach this...
--- End quote ---
Again, I'm sorry but I wasn't trying to attack anyone here. I didn't say a disrespectful comment about the lighted buttons setups, just merely mentioned a comparison with christmas lights. Those are supposed to be bright and cheerful, I'm not sure where's the negativity in that? You're the one who keeps writing that I'm attacking people when I really wasn't. Is "christmas lights" a negative thing to say in the english language?
What do you want me to do? Do you want me to stop posting on the forums? Do you want me to stop having opinions? :dunno
RandyT:
--- Quote from: Yvan256 on September 08, 2012, 11:32:41 am ---The rims should also be able to change color, of course. However, from the emails I've exchanged so far, there seems to be severe limitations on the molding process. I'm not even sure yet if the skin can be molded to the shape of the plunger. Worst case scenario, the skin would be a single flat disc, used as an insert for clear buttons. In the ideal setup the plastic itself would be able to change to multiple colors, but we don't have such technology at the moment. The best I've seen is two-colors plastic, activated by heat, sunlight or electrical current.
--- End quote ---
I think you may be short-selling the major innovators here. Most are aware of the current hardware trends, and even better than that, are acutely aware of manufacturing feasibilities, as well as what the market is likely to be once costs are considered.
Looking at the links you posted, you can "color" me skeptical. Based on the shape of the iphone case shown, and the small swatch of color which actually possesses the color changing properties, it looks like you can have any shape, as long as it's "flat". A flat disc inside a clear button is still not the "color changing button" you envision. There are also the ever present burdens of cost. Even if they could somehow make the material in the shape of a button, with even a $5 (probably low) cost per unit and a 50k minumum, you are talking about a quarter million dollars just to see if the result is something people not only want, but would be willing to pay for. If I had that kind of investment, there would be a lot of new innovations coming to this hobby, and realistically, this wouldn't be one of them.
It's an interesting technology, and makes for an equally interesting topic of discussion. But my opinion is that anything particularly usable in the way you wish it to be, is a minimum of 5 years away, but probably more. The most telling thing is the lack of any compelling demonstration videos showing an application even close to that of the one you are talking about. The product spec sheet shows an "up to 2 inch curve" for conformability. Even this is a little vague, but I take that to mean that the curve has to be no less than a 2 inch diameter curve, i.e. between flat and a 1" radius.
As someone who has previously worked in an industry where a new technology has sought (in vain) to find a marketable application, this one looks not so different to my eyes. If they can eventually do some of things they are telling you, it will probably get there. But if it's not being demonstrated that they can, and in a meaningful way, there's a lot of risk involved.
RandyT
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